# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1241 "2017-12-09T17:14:09Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You won’t be alone. > > In other news… [Paul Manafort is About to Have a Substantial Increase in His Bail](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/special-counsel-mueller-filing-shows-manafort-drafted-ukraine-op-ed-despite-gag-order-idUSKBN1E22P2). (Reuters) Assuming, of course, his bail isn’t fully revoked. In my experience, a defendant sitting in jail awaiting trial is much more willing to cooperate. Whatever hope they can maintain while out on bail seems to vanish when they put on a jumpsuit for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1242 "2017-12-09T17:44:02Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > In my experience, a defendant sitting in jail awaiting trial is much more willing to cooperate. Whatever hope they can maintain while out on bail seems to vanish when they put on a jumpsuit for the first time. And meet the, ahem, community? ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1243 "2017-12-10T14:26:36Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > in these dark days, you gotta take your fun where you can. Otherwise your head may explode. it’s true, and also this is my Most Favorite Thread Ever and I thank you for that, ThelmaLou. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1244 "2017-12-10T15:10:08Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > it’s true, and also this is my Most Favorite Thread Ever and I thank you for that, ThelmaLou. 🙂 Awww… _\_ Thank you for saying so. Too bad we needed it, eh? ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1245 "2017-12-11T14:36:48Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I suspect the Russian mob will be quite upset if he can’t pay his bills. Being poor may be the least of his problems. Oh, good point! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1246 "2017-12-11T19:47:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And [the Onion](https://politics.theonion.com/panicked-donald-trump-jr-tries-to-cover-up-contact-wit-1821133627) is on it. Headline for those who can’t click: > > Panicked Donald Trump Jr. Tries To Cover Up Contact With WikiLeaks By Deleting Firefox Icon From Desktop Heeheeheeheeheeheehee! :D:D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1247 "2017-12-11T19:53:48Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I love how Fox was lambasting the investigative team for all of their conflicts of interest, yet towed the line of it being perfectly fine that Trump has even more, and much more severe. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > “Toed” the line. [/nitpick] Nope. Not a “nitpick.” Nits are lice in their larval form. They’re very small; one might even consider them inconsequential. By now, the “tow the line”/“toe the line” ill-usage is egregious and inexcusable enough to merit a somewhat larger arthropod.[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1248 "2017-12-11T19:59:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Nope. Not a “nitpick.” Nits are lice in their larval form. They’re very small; one might even consider them inconsequential. By now, the “tow the line”/“toe the line” ill-usage is egregious and inexcusable enough to merit a somewhat larger arthropod.[/hijack] Perhaps something in a nice [vinegaroon](https://sydkab.com/2014/11/30/arachnids-vinegaroons/)? Although, actually, these are arachnids – but it’s the thought that counts! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1249 "2017-12-11T20:00:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Nope. Not a “nitpick.” Nits are lice in their larval form. They’re very small; one might even consider them inconsequential. By now, the “tow the line”/“toe the line” ill-usage is egregious and inexcusable enough to merit a somewhat larger arthropod.[/hijack] > [@Superdude](#): > > Blame autocorrect. One downside of posting by phone. Okay then, never mind. Proofreading is your friend, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1250 "2017-12-11T20:42:50Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Perhaps something in a nice [vinegaroon](https://sydkab.com/2014/11/30/arachnids-vinegaroons/)? > > Although, actually, these are arachnids – but it’s the thought that counts! Arachnids are arthropods. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1251 "2017-12-11T23:04:49Z")
Well, [Manafort didn’t get hosed nearly as bad as I expected he would](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/judge-tells-ex-trump-adviser-manafort-to-stop-communicating-with-media-idUSKBN1E51ZT). > [@](#): > > \*U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson chided Manafort for ghost-writing an opinion piece that was published last week in the Kyiv Post, a Ukraine English language newspaper, lauding Manafort’s political work for Ukraine. > > Jackson said she should would consider any similar future behavior to be a violation of her Nov. 8 gag order not to discuss the case with the media or make public statements in ways that could affect its outcome.\* She didn’t take him into custody and she took his motion for bail reduction under advisement, so for now he remains under house arrest. Maybe he’ll get the message this time. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1252 "2017-12-12T06:09:59Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Arachnids are arthropods. 🙂 But at least they’re not scorpions. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1253 "2017-12-12T19:58:48Z")
The Dotard didn’t get Man of the Year, but [he did get Lie of the Year](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/dec/12/2017-lie-year-russian-election-interference-made-s/). ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1254 "2017-12-15T18:02:19Z")
Just so we are clear, the president of the United States just signaled to a cooperating witness that he might be willing to pardon him: > **[Trump on a Flynn pardon: 'Let's see' | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/15/politics/donald-trump-michael-flynn-pardon/index.html)** > > President Donald Trump on Friday did not dismiss the idea of pardoning former national security adviser Michael Flynn after he pleaded guilty earlier this month to lying to the FBI about conversations with Russia's ambassador to the US. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1255 "2017-12-15T18:04:28Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Just so we are clear, the president of the United States just signaled to a cooperating witness that he might be willing to pardon him: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/15/politics/donald-trump-michael-flynn-pardon/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/15/politics/donald-trump-michael-flynn-pardon/index.html) _Mueller steps up milking Flynn for all he’s worth._ ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1256 "2017-12-15T18:07:34Z")
Is it only obstruction of justice if it’s clandestine? I mean, it’s being done out in the open, so it doesn’t count? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1257 "2017-12-15T18:21:06Z")
A pardon might be assholish but I don’t see how it could be obstruction. The president’s power to grand pardons is basically unchecked. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1258 "2017-12-15T18:27:30Z")
Can’t it be both legal and obstruction of justice? The pardon could be both legal/valid, and used as evidence that the president is attempting to affect the investigation, no? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1259 "2017-12-15T18:42:42Z")
Even tho our laws don’t exempt the POTUS from most of them, the reality is that it’s going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to detain him. So he’s effectively not bound by our laws. That means that if people also feel as you do, **Fiveyearlurker** , the only legal recourse is impeachment. What you posit could prolly be used as evidence for an impeachment, but I’d bet dollars-to-donuts that there’d be a huge dispute about whether or not it was criminally illegal. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1260 "2017-12-15T18:54:26Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Can’t it be both legal and obstruction of justice? The pardon could be both legal/valid, and used as evidence that the president is attempting to affect the investigation, no? Obstruction of justice is by definition criminal. So a thing can’t be both a crime and not a crime. But if you’re talking about some lesser definition, such as what Congress might define “obstruction of justice” to mean in the context of an impeachment, then it might meet that definition. But impeachment isn’t a criminal matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=64)