# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1321 "2017-12-18T14:10:51Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > From what I am reading, the GSA voluntarily turned over the transition emails. They claim they were within their rights to do so, because Trump’s transition accepted an agreement with the GSA stating that by using devices provided by the GSA, the transition team’s emails would not be held back from any law enforcement actions. > > The [MOU is posted online](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4110103-GSA-Memorandum-of-Understanding-with-Trump.html). To save you a click, I personally couldn’t find any explicit language regarding release of email to any third party, law enforcement or otherwise. So if that exists, it must be in some other document. > > Although really, why would we think that any document in the .gov domain would automatically be excluded from law enforcement inquiry? And yeah… I’m skeptical of the idea that Mueller made a rookie mistake in gathering evidence, although I’m sure this idea will be added to the huge wooly ball of string that is the conservative conspiracy theory of Uranium One, Pizzagate, and Obama’s birth certificate. That MOU references a document called IT Rules of Behavior that each user of GSA provided electronics was required to sign. I found a copy of that document. [https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/CIO\_2104.1A\_CHGE\_1\_GSA\_Information\_Technology\_(IT)\_General\_Rules\_of\_Behavior\_(Posted\_Version\_-\_May\_3\_\_2016).pdf](https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/CIO_2104.1A_CHGE_1_GSA_Information_Technology_%28IT%29_General_Rules_of_Behavior_%28Posted_Version_-_May_3__2016%29.pdf) The actual rules are on Page 3. The first item under the heading PRIVACY is: 1. “Users have no expectation of privacy on GSA IT resources since all activities are subject to monitoring.” Nothing explicit about release tona 3rd Party but I think that covers it. And there’s also other, stringent rules that you KNOW those idiots didn’t follow. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1322 "2017-12-18T14:33:39Z")
All due respect the WaPo and the NYT but in this instance Mueller has access to a lot of people and documents the press don’t. I’m inclined to think that the hits are not going to be about the actual collusion and more about lying about the collusion and obstructing justice. I’m also uncertain as to whether Trump himself will take any direct hit (unless the Democrats take over Congress next year) but that doesn’t mean that Kushner or one or more of the Trump kids won’t be indicted at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1323 "2017-12-18T14:39:53Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > [Politico: Ex-Spy Chief: Russia’s Election Hacking Was An ‘Intelligence Failure’](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/11/the-full-transcript-michael-morell-216061) > > Michael Morell says: The other interesting aspect of it from my perspective was that he felt that he and other high-ranking intelligence people had contributed to Trump’s distrust of the US intelligence agencies by being overtly political (plus the leaks). (Though he says he’s undecided as to whether what he did was wrong, in spite of that - just that he hadn’t considered that downside.) > [@Gyrate](#): > > All due respect the WaPo and the NYT but in this instance Mueller has access to a lot of people and documents the press don’t. That’s true. But it’s generally the case that if the press throws massive resources at something that they can find it without the documents and such. And this has been especially true WRT matters connected to the Trump administration. > [@](#): > > I’m inclined to think that the hits are not going to be about the actual collusion and more about lying about the collusion and obstructing justice. I’m also uncertain as to whether Trump himself will take any direct hit (unless the Democrats take over Congress next year) but that doesn’t mean that Kushner or one or more of the Trump kids won’t be indicted at some point. I think one big risk for Trump will be if he himself is interviewed by Mueller’s team. I’m not sure his grasp on reality is strong enough for him to stick to the facts. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1324 "2017-12-18T14:51:49Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The first step is what we’re seeing now. It’s a steady drumbeat of various allegations of corruption. Not the same drumbeat of the same allegation, but different ones every other day. Mueller’s biased. Mueller has democrats working for him. McCabe’s wife is a democrat. One agent over here doesn’t like Trump. Another agent doesn’t like Trump. They treated Clinton one way; they treated Trump another way. It’ll be something new every day. The stories themselves are mostly non-stories, easily debunked claims, but the breadth and frequency of the storm will sow confusion. Even so, it would probably be unwise to remove Mueller at this point. It would be smarter for Trump to do it a little bit later. > > That brings us to the next step in the destruction of Mueller’s investigation, which is to create an alternative reality on the ground level. The idea is to create an almost holographic alternative constituency that supports Trump and feels victimized by Mueller, the elite government bureaucrat. They’ll characterize it as the silent majority, but probably in reality not really a majority or anything close to it. But it’s a key constituency that Trump and the right wing need to “save” and “protect”. And this is where Fox and Breitbart come in. They will show data (most of it fake and misleading) suggesting that there is a grassroots group of people who are being victimized by having _their_ leader taken down. They’ll suggest the will of people in West Virginia and Arizona is being overpowered by career bureaucrats. When that happens, Trump and the right will “save” them by ending Mueller’s investigation - and that’s probably when they’ll start cleaning out the government and replacing them with loyalists. > > In this day and age, this strategy is surprisingly easy and powerful. People get their information from decentralized channels but because of online feeds like Facebook and Google, millions of readers and consumers can be easily lead in direction (and to one story) one moment, and easily lead to another one in the next moment. It creates chaos, information instability. It makes people not just distracted but uncomforatble. Aw, crap! Yeah, you are likely correct about all that. That tactic would probably achieve the desired result for the Trumpists. Scary! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1325 "2017-12-18T14:58:04Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > 1. “Users have no expectation of privacy on GSA IT resources since all activities are subject to monitoring.” Wow. And somewhere in Trumpland there’s an an attorney who will have to explain why he thought this was a suitable medium for privileged attorney-client communication. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1326 "2017-12-18T15:06:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I think one big risk for Trump will be if he himself is interviewed by Mueller’s team. I’m not sure his grasp on reality is strong enough for him to stick to the facts. This is the biggest risk he faces, I think. He has proved that he can’t speak without lying, and seems unable to distinguish between things that can hurt him and things that will not. I believe that the precipitating event for the firing of Mueller will be a request or a subpoena for an interview with Trump. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1327 "2017-12-18T15:19:37Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps > > I think one big risk for Trump will be if he himself is interviewed by Mueller’s team. I’m not sure his grasp on reality is strong enough for him to stick to the facts. > > This is the biggest risk he faces, I think. He has proved that he can’t speak without lying, and seems unable to distinguish between things that can hurt him and things that will not. I believe that the precipitating event for the firing of Mueller will be a request or a subpoena for an interview with Trump. If thump did testify, it would be a horrifying spectacle (which I would gladly pay money to see). If for some reason he doesn’t or can’t fire Mueller, I can see him delaying, stalling, doing anything and everything to avoid such an appearance, up to and including WWIII (“Sorry, can’t do it today because incoming North Korean missiles!”) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1328 "2017-12-18T15:20:30Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m also uncertain as to whether Trump himself will take any direct hit (unless the Democrats take over Congress next year) but that doesn’t mean that Kushner or one or more of the Trump kids won’t be indicted at some point. Congress is formed of two separate entities of quasi-equal power. It’s almost a given that the House will go to the Democrats in 2018. Even if the Senate stays Republican, the House Oversight, Intelligence, Judiciary, and Ethics Committees will be chaired by Democrats, and they’ll have free reign to request all sorts of documents on Trump’s businesses, finances, taxes, private life, etc. and throw it around in front of C-Span or leak it to the press. Unless the man is spotless, he’s going to take a hit within weeks - if not days - of the new House coming into session, in 2019. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1329 "2017-12-18T15:29:52Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > That’s all they have left at this point – they know they’re big-red-capital-Superman-“S” screwed. > > The best part is that Trump’s minions put neon signs on the most incriminating emails by redacting them – all Mueller’s people have to do is compare what the Trump team handed over with what the GSA handed over and note the differences. I was about to say that the sad thing is that Trump and his family probably wouldn’t have used the new accounts. I mean, no one can make Trump stop tweeting, nor can they even make him use the official @POTUS twitter handle. It’s just as likely that he’s still emailing everyone in the White House and in Congress as **[bigdaddy@trump.com](mailto:bigdaddy@trump.com)**. My guess would have been that the emails only helped with Flynn. But Trump’s lawyers are only covering Trump and his family. If they’re concerned about, redacting, or culling these emails, then that means that at least one person in Trump’s family _was_ using one of the GSA email accounts. Eric and Junior are probably too stupid and lazy to bother signing up for the new accounts, Trump himself (as noted) is probably using **[bigdaddy@trump.com](mailto:bigdaddy@trump.com)**, so that leaves Kushner and Ivanka. One wonders whether this revelation has anything to do with Friday’s news that Kushner is seeking a crisis management PR firm? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1330 "2017-12-18T15:51:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > One wonders whether this revelation has anything to do with Friday’s news that Kushner is seeking a crisis management PR firm? One wonders why he needs a crisis management firm when he has Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1331 "2017-12-18T15:57:58Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Throughout his life, he’s gotten away with not complying… > > Refuse to turn over documents, “lose” documents, destroyed documents, etc. A few “lost” papers, a few bribes, home free. He’s learned this shit works. > > It’s how he never got really ruined in any of the many lawsuits filed against him. Yeah, he’s finding out the hard way that the tactics that served him in business don’t work in government. Because that’s how he ran the business. He lied on permitting and filing documents and if he got caught he was able to get away with refiling them. He defrauded customers but when he got caught he was able to dodge criminal prosecution by giving everyone their money back. We saw he laughably lame attempts to use the tactics that worked for him in business. Trying to schmooze Comey over dinner to try and get him to drop the Flynn case. That time he provided a an actual letter from a respected lawyer stating he didn’t do business it’s Russia. When he was a sleazy businessman these tactics would sometimes work. I’ve gotta be honest, I’ve never been a big Russiagate drum beater. But I think these new emails are going to be a treasure chest of smoking guns. And a great tactic on Mueller’s part —because by requesting them he probably led the perpetrators of “Stupid Watergate” to believe he NEEDED them to get the e-mails. Now he can compare them. It’s going to be awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1332 "2017-12-18T16:00:15Z")
In my opinion (IANAL), everything you need to know about the “validity” of this claim is that a Trump transition team lawyer sent a letter to Congress. There are legal remedies available when a party obtains unauthorized discovery (the emails), and the most likely one would be for the Trump team to file a motion with the federal court seeking to prevent the use of the emails in furtherance of the Mueller investigation. They haven’t filed any motion. It’s very telling about their true motivations. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1333 "2017-12-18T16:01:22Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Yeah, he’s finding out the hard way that the tactics that served him in business don’t work in government. Because that’s how he ran the business. He lied on permitting and filing documents and if he got caught he was able to get away with refiling them. He defrauded customers but when he got caught he was able to dodge criminal prosecution by giving everyone their money back. > > We saw he laughably lame attempts to use the tactics that worked for him in business. Trying to schmooze Comey over dinner to try and get him to drop the Flynn case. That time he provided a an actual letter from a respected lawyer stating he didn’t do business it’s Russia. When he was a sleazy businessman these tactics would sometimes work. > > I’ve gotta be honest, I’ve never been a big Russiagate drum beater. But I think these new emails are going to be a treasure chest of smoking guns. And a great tactic on Mueller’s part —because by requesting them he probably led the perpetrators of “Stupid Watergate” to believe he NEEDED them to get the e-mails. > Now he can compare them. It’s going to be awesome. QFT. Awesome, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1334 "2017-12-18T18:39:23Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I was about to say that the sad thing is that Trump and his family probably wouldn’t have used the new accounts. I mean, no one can make Trump stop tweeting, nor can they even make him use the official @POTUS twitter handle. It’s just as likely that he’s still emailing everyone in the White House and in Congress as **[bigdaddy@trump.com](mailto:bigdaddy@trump.com)**. Haven’t we been assured over the last couple years that a government official using a private e-mail server is literally the worst criminal and moral transgression that a human being can commit? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1335 "2017-12-18T19:02:22Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Haven’t we been assured over the last couple years that a government official using a private e-mail server is literally the worst criminal and moral transgression that a human being can commit? Only if you are a Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1336 "2017-12-18T19:30:32Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > If thump did testify, it would be a horrifying spectacle (which I would gladly pay money to see). If for some reason he doesn’t or can’t fire Mueller, I can see him delaying, stalling, doing anything and everything to avoid such an appearance, up to and including WWIII (“Sorry, can’t do it today because incoming North Korean missiles!”) Yeah, it seems that the Trumpster is probably evil enough to start a war in order to relieve the pressure on himself. Pathetic! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1337 "2017-12-18T20:04:56Z")
You’ll see that, I’ll see that. What he will see is a huge threat to America that only he can defeat. Defeat, that is, if he is not hampered by biased investigations and distractions. A lot will depend on whether the existential threat comes from Russia, China, or Belgium. None of this will impact the Dutch, of course! No, not the Dutch, _never_ the Dutch! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1338 "2017-12-19T03:31:26Z")
LOL, this is gonna burn. [Mueller Team Expects Investigation to Last Through Most of 2018](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-teams-meeting-with-muellers-office-poised-to-ratchet-up-tensions/2017/12/18/15dac668-e41d-11e7-a65d-1ac0fd7f097e_story.html?utm_term=.2f0b8ab65e1e). (WaPo) > [@](#): > > People with knowledge of the investigation said it could last at least another year — pointing to ongoing cooperation from witnesses such as former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos and former national security adviser Michael Flynn, as well as a possible trial of two former Trump campaign officials. The special counsel’s office has continued to request new documents related to the campaign, and members of Mueller’s team have told others they expect to be working through much of 2018, at a minimum. About to get intense. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1339 "2017-12-19T04:13:07Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > LOL, this is gonna burn. > > [Mueller Team Expects Investigation to Last Through Most of 2018](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-teams-meeting-with-muellers-office-poised-to-ratchet-up-tensions/2017/12/18/15dac668-e41d-11e7-a65d-1ac0fd7f097e_story.html?utm_term=.2f0b8ab65e1e). (WaPo) > > About to get intense. I think that as Americans we need to understand that this year, 2018, will be the year that our country is challenged in unprecedented ways. The right wing will absolutely try to shut down the investigation. They will also be increasingly hostile to free and fair elections. Prepare to be outraged. Prepare to see things we never imagined possible in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1340 "2017-12-19T04:48:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think that as Americans we need to understand that this year, 2018, will be the year that our country is challenged in unprecedented ways. The right wing will absolutely try to shut down the investigation. They will also be increasingly hostile to free and fair elections. Prepare to be outraged. Prepare to see things we never imagined possible in this country. I agree with this completely. We are in the hands of a mad man, supported by a complicit, corrupt Congress. It’s up to the people now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=68)