# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/121 "2017-10-30T15:17:05Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Manafort is 68 or so. All he has to do is tie this up in an appeal process, whether it is related to a pardon or one of the charges. The appeal will probably outlive him and he knows it. A good choice to throw under the bus really. Appeals don’t generally keep you out of prison. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/122 "2017-10-30T15:18:59Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > My prediction: Trump is being indicted. > > Only because if it does happen, I will be able to say “I CALLED IT!” 🙂 I hope he will be, along with his buddies. I’m hoping the indictments and (hopefully) arrests will convince the toads to turn on him, and I hope he goes to federal prison. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/123 "2017-10-30T15:22:52Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Appeals don’t generally keep you out of prison. Different it it’s a non-violent felony. They will let you remain out and fight it. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/124 "2017-10-30T15:24:58Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Does this mean the Trump campaign knew that Podesta had been hacked before the FBI and Podesta knew? If so, would they have any legal obligation to report it? If a foreign agent offers you the fruits of a crime committed against a US person, and you keep that information to yourself, have you committed a crime? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/125 "2017-10-30T15:25:20Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Different it it’s a non-violent felony. They will let you remain out and fight it. No, that’s not generally what happens. There are exceptions, as with everything in the law, but you usually don’t get to avoid serving a sentence just because you appeal. The legal standard for being released requires a showing that you’re likely to win your appeal. Not going to happen here, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/126 "2017-10-30T15:26:57Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > If so, would they have any legal obligation to report it? If a foreign agent offers you the fruits of a crime committed against a US person, and you keep that information to yourself, have you committed a crime? I doubt they have any criminal law obligation to report it. And much will turn on how detailed their information was. But knowledge of the hack and taking no action to inform anyone is certainly a form of collusion for the purposes of the political question of whether Trump helped Russia influence the election. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/127 "2017-10-30T15:27:12Z")
I must say, “conspiracy against the United States” has quite a ring to it. Also amusing, Trump’s tweets have started: > [@](#): > > From the Trump > Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign. But why aren’t Crooked Hillary & the Dems the focus??? And > [@](#): > > Trump continues > …Also, there is NO COLLUSION! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/128 "2017-10-30T15:42:57Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Different it it’s a non-violent felony. They will let you remain out and fight it. In my experience, which admittedly is not at the federal level, only once in nearly 20 years working in the court system. The fellow was granted bail on appeal for a child molest case due to his position in the community. He took the opportunity to molest another child in the intervening 2 years before the case was remanded for retrial. So no, not common, irrespective of whether a violent or non-violent felony. At least not where I worked. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/129 "2017-10-30T15:44:08Z")
Just so we’re clear, on day one we have an admission and guilty plea on the Trump campaign colluding with the Russians. And the campaign manager set to rot in jail unless he deals. Some situations are impossible to extricate oneself from without resorting to extreme measures, and I fear that begins on day one also. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/130 "2017-10-30T15:56:45Z")
And the sTrumpets on CNN are claiming “there’s no evidence so it’s over” and trying to take the discussion to Obama and Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/131 "2017-10-30T15:59:21Z")
Mr Mueller is specifically empowered to follow threads which may, or may not, lead to further things. Like…oh, I dunno, grab something at random here…money laundering. As in, real estate deals that offer extraordinary returns on investment. Kind of returns that only happen to men of astonishing acumen and expertise. Or crooks. And here is where I expect Il Douche will try to head him off at the pass. Trump will pretend that Mueller was not empowered to investigate such things, even though he clearly was, so long as the evidence arises out of his investigation. 'Course, if he does fire Mueller, then Mueller can just shrug and leave that pile of evidence just lying around, so that another state or federal investigator can pick it up. Forfeiture, fines, liens, confiscation. Oh, my! Then let a subtle hint drop, a whisper, a wink, that if he weren’t actually President any longer, maybe the hounds when not hound him quite so fervently, maybe a few of these problems might just wilt away. Can’t keep _all_ of that money, wouldn’t be right, not the done thing. But maybe some. How much may depend on how quickly and sincerely he cooperates. Don’t want to see him shopping for his dinner at Dollar Store. Well, 'struth, I do, but I’m a vindictive and cruel sumbitch. Sign right there, “Mr President”. Justice Roberts and VP Pence are in the next room, with a Bible, all set to go. If you want to show the reporters your huge signature again, that will be fine. Or not, up to you. Mr. Trump. Adios, motherfucker! ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/132 "2017-10-30T15:59:24Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > In my experience, which admittedly is not at the federal level, only once in nearly 20 years working in the court system. The fellow was granted bail on appeal for a child molest case due to his position in the community. He took the opportunity to molest another child in the intervening 2 years before the case was remanded for retrial. > > So no, not common, irrespective of whether a violent or non-violent felony. At least not where I worked. Here, the Fed rule. > **[Rule 9. Release in a Criminal Case](https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frap/rule_9)** …(3) The court of appeals or one of its judges may order the defendant’s release pending the disposition of the appeal. … ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/133 "2017-10-30T16:01:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And the sTrumpets on CNN are claiming “there’s no evidence so it’s over” and trying to take the discussion to Obama and Clinton. He was literally yelling “Whatabout”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/134 "2017-10-30T16:23:18Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I must say, “conspiracy against the United States” has quite a ring to it. A nice ring, but it’s more mundane than it sounds. Just that Manafort and Gates were allegedly working together to defraud agencies of the U.S. government. Mind you, that’s still nontrivial, but ‘Conspiracy against the United States’ sounds more to us laypeople like a plot to overthrow or undermine the U.S. government. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/135 "2017-10-30T16:32:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Mr Mueller is specifically empowered to follow threads which may, or may not, lead to further things. Like…oh, I dunno, grab something at random here…money laundering. As in, real estate deals that offer extraordinary returns on investment. Kind of returns that only happen to men of astonishing acumen and expertise. Or crooks. > > And here is where I expect Il Douche will try to head him off at the pass. Trump will pretend that Mueller was not empowered to investigate such things, even though he clearly was, so long as the evidence arises out of his investigation. 'Course, if he does fire Mueller, then Mueller can just shrug and leave that pile of evidence just lying around, so that another state or federal investigator can pick it up. > > Forfeiture, fines, liens, confiscation. Oh, my! Then let a subtle hint drop, a whisper, a wink, that if he weren’t actually President any longer, maybe the hounds when not hound him quite so fervently, maybe a few of these problems might just wilt away. Can’t keep _all_ of that money, wouldn’t be right, not the done thing. But maybe some. How much may depend on how quickly and sincerely he cooperates. Don’t want to see him shopping for his dinner at Dollar Store. > > Well, 'struth, I do, but I’m a vindictive and cruel sumbitch. > > Sign right there, “Mr President”. Justice Roberts and VP Pence are in the next room, with a Bible, all set to go. If you want to show the reporters your huge signature again, that will be fine. Or not, up to you. Mr. Trump. > > Adios, motherfucker! To get rid of Trump, congress & senate will have to act. Unless that happen ;Trump will pardon all his cronies and find some way to get rid of Mueller. Every shred of decency has long ago left the man so there is really nothing stopping him. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/136 "2017-10-30T16:34:55Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Here, the Fed rule. > > [Rule 9. Release in a Criminal Case | Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frap/rule_9) > > …(3) The court of appeals or one of its judges may order the defendant’s release pending the disposition of the appeal. … Oh, I agree they _ **may** _. And thank you for sharing the rule. But that’s not different than county courts. The question is, is it commonly done? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/137 "2017-10-30T17:07:34Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > To get rid of Trump, congress & senate will have to act. Unless that happen ;Trump will pardon all his cronies and find some way to get rid of Mueller. Every shred of decency has long ago left the man so there is really nothing stopping him. Nothing scares a rich guy like the prospect of becoming a poor one. Decency has long fled, true, but fear remains. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/138 "2017-10-30T17:23:01Z")
There’s also the fear of a federal PMITA prison, and for Trump it’s the fear of being out of the public eye, but yeah, money is involved too. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/139 "2017-10-30T17:28:16Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I accidentally laundered two bucks in one of my laundry loads last month. What do I get? How did you vote in the last election? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/140 "2017-10-30T17:31:22Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I accidentally laundered two bucks in one of my laundry loads last month. What do I get? Sightly cleaner money. Which is a good thing considering how filthy the money in circulation actually is. I still don’t see this getting to the Presidency any faster than Watergate did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=8)