# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1421 "2017-12-30T06:05:46Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Also, “I have absolute right to do what I want to do with the Justice Department.” is a troubling quote. Didn’t Nixon say something very similar during that famous interview he did? They made a movie about it which I now cannot recall the name of. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1422 "2017-12-30T06:39:24Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Didn’t Nixon say something very similar during that famous interview he did? They made a movie about it which I now cannot recall the name of. You mean that movie with Frost and Nixon, about the Frost/Nixon interviews where Frost asked questions and Nixon answered them. I think it was called “The President Who Couldn’t Shut Up”. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1423 "2017-12-30T11:45:46Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > You mean that movie with Frost and Nixon, about the Frost/Nixon interviews where Frost asked questions and Nixon answered them. I think it was called “The President Who Couldn’t Shut Up”. At least Nixon had the excuse of being a pickled-brain mean drunk. What is Trump’s? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1424 "2017-12-30T12:57:11Z")
Dementia. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1425 "2017-12-30T13:33:17Z")
Demonic possession. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1426 "2017-12-30T14:39:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > To clarify, it does seems likely that Putin has some degree of financial leverage over Donald Trump, but that has a lot to do with the nature of this particular candidate, having been an aggressive businessman who generates cash flow but who also has mountains of unpaid debt. Tangential question, this seems as good a place as any… it seems inevitable that Trump’s personal and family finances are a focal point of this investigation, and that documents like Trump’s tax return will end up as evidence. At what point does this become public information? When do we get to see exactly to what extent Trump’s business empire is a house of cards propped up by shady Russian loans? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1427 "2017-12-30T15:28:45Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Tangential question, this seems as good a place as any… it seems inevitable that Trump’s personal and family finances are a focal point of this investigation, and that documents like Trump’s tax return will end up as evidence. At what point does this become public information? When do we get to see exactly to what extent Trump’s business empire is a house of cards propped up by shady Russian loans? Probably not unless they are directly related to activity that Mueller’s team deems to be worthy of a criminal indictment. I suppose someone on the inside could leak documents but they’d be risking criminal charges themselves. Now could someone overseas and out of a US jurisdiction leak? Sure, but I’m guessing they’d be subject to criminal prosecution there, too. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1428 "2017-12-30T15:55:10Z")
> [@](#): > > At what point does this become public information? When do we get to see exactly to what extent Trump’s business empire is a house of cards propped up by shady Russian loans? this is what he doesn’t want his base to know: they don’t care that he is a bloated orange nazi but he is NOT RICH. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1429 "2017-12-30T16:07:40Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > this is what he doesn’t want his base to know: they don’t care that he is a bloated orange nazi but he is NOT RICH. Well, of course. The immune system of the Trump hive-mind rabidly defends his image as a self-made millionaire and a “CEO President”. It viciously rejects even the mildest attempt to see how this fantasy holds up to the evidence of reality. That’s why I want to see all the squealing and screaming when it’s revealed that Trump is a mere conman who got rich off sequential bankruptcies, used Russian entities as a lender of last resort, and said entities realized that his utter incapacity to repay the loan didn’t matter because he’s the most useful of useful idiots who ever existed. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1430 "2017-12-30T16:40:44Z")
Which dovetails nicely into the tax policy which is trying to sell the idea that we are all going to have more money next year and the fact that this money is borrowed from the future doesn’t matter. Looking rich is the same as being rich, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1431 "2018-01-03T20:37:43Z")
Paul Manafort, who is just a bad-idea-having machine, has decided to sue Robert Mueller and the entire Department of Justice. [http://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/367283-manafort-sues-mueller-justice-department](http://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/367283-manafort-sues-mueller-justice-department) > [@Manafort's lawsuit](#): > > “The investigation of Mr. Manafort is completely unmoored from the Special Counsel’s original jurisdiction to investigate ‘any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump,’” the complaint reads. > “It has instead focused on unrelated, decade-old business dealings — specifically, Ukraine political campaign consulting activities of Mr. Manafort.” Sure, Paul. Mueller’s examining how you’re an undeclared foreign agent with a history of working for Russia and Ukraine while also operating as Donald’s campaign manager is completely unrelated to the subject of collusion between Donald’s campaign and Russia. Good luck with that! ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1432 "2018-01-03T21:33:06Z")
I’m curious about the arguments in Manafort’s suit. Rosenstein’s appointment letter limits the scope of Mueller’s investigation (but in practice the order is very broad) but what relevance does that have with regard to whether Manafort is being lawfully prosecuted? If Manafort’s alleged crimes were outside the scope of Meuller’s investigation, then anyone else at DOJ could have investigated and prosecuted them instead. So the question of Mueller’s jurisdictional boundaries seem moot, at least to my understanding. He’s a duly-appointed federal prosecutor and can prosecute any crime he sees fit. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1433 "2018-01-03T21:52:02Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I’m curious about the arguments in Manafort’s suit. Rosenstein’s appointment letter limits the scope of Mueller’s investigation (but in practice the order is very broad) but what relevance does that have with regard to whether Manafort is being lawfully prosecuted? If Manafort’s alleged crimes were outside the scope of Meuller’s investigation, then anyone else at DOJ could have investigated and prosecuted them instead. So the question of Mueller’s jurisdictional boundaries seem moot, at least to my understanding. He’s a duly-appointed federal prosecutor and can prosecute any crime he sees fit. Yeah. Manafort’s argument is equivalent to asserting that if the cops come in with a warrant to search for a stolen TV set and trip over a bloody corpse on the floor, they can’t start a murder investigation. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1434 "2018-01-03T21:56:46Z")
Huh. I once said about DJTjr that he would be dumb enough to go to cops to complain about being cheated in a drug deal… didn’t know Manafort was that dumb, too. (Carter Page, otoh, is too stupid to initiate a drug deal, so he clears that hurdle at least.) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1435 "2018-01-04T00:33:40Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I’m curious about the arguments in Manafort’s suit. The court filing is here at this TPM link [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/manafort-sues-justice-department-robert-mueller-and-rod-rosenstein](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/manafort-sues-justice-department-robert-mueller-and-rod-rosenstein) > [@](#): > > So the question of Mueller’s jurisdictional boundaries seem moot, at least to my understanding. He’s a duly-appointed federal prosecutor and can prosecute any crime he sees fit. I agree, but on reflection, I assume that this is the Trump camp’s attempt to get a judge to shut down Mueller’s probe and protect Donald from the money laundering charges. They’re hoping to appeal this up to the Supremes, and counting on Gorsuch to be “loyal”. I assume Donald’s paying for Manafort’s lawyers, too. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1436 "2018-01-04T02:55:42Z")
If there were any possible way Manafort’s civil suit were going anywhere other than the trash can, he wouldn’t have filed it. Instead, he would have filed it with the court in his criminal case and asked for a dismissal. This is a publicity stunt. The only question is how many Republicans will start citing this as proof of overreach by Mueller. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1437 "2018-01-04T02:59:57Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Huh. I once said about DJTjr that he would be dumb enough to go to cops to complain about being cheated in a drug deal… didn’t know Manafort was that dumb, too. > > (Carter Page, otoh, is too stupid to initiate a drug deal, so he clears that hurdle at least.) LOL! So I guess Manafart’s the guy who complains about getting beat up by a pizza deliveryman in an attempted stick-up gone wrong. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1438 "2018-01-04T03:09:08Z")
Or the bank robber who turns himself in for the reward money… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1439 "2018-01-04T03:18:31Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Or the bank robber who turns himself in for the reward money… more like uses his own deposit slip to write the demand on. “Look, the money never even left the bank!” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1440 "2018-01-04T03:23:38Z")
So let’s get this straight: Trump takes the excerpts about the book seriously enough to trash Bannon on twitter, but as for the rest of the book…??? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=73)