# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/141 "2017-10-30T17:40:56Z")
At 12:38pm Eastern time, Fox News had a big “Credibility in Question” banner next to a pic of Mueller. Hey Fox, the indictment is out there. (Two of them now, of course - the Manafort/Gates indictment, and the Papadopolous indictment.) Care to point out which particular items that you regard as being of questionable credibility? Of course they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/142 "2017-10-30T17:43:01Z")
Lyin’ Sarah said the indictments and the lies Papadopoulos told have nothing to do with the Trump campaign and then pivoted to Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/143 "2017-10-30T17:58:51Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Lyin’ Sarah said the indictments and the lies Papadopoulos told have nothing to do with the Trump campaign and then pivoted to Clinton. Her confidence level has dropped precipitously over the past few months. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/144 "2017-10-30T18:16:48Z")
Why do they keep acting like Clinton is still running? It is the easiest to rebut concept. “Why not Clinton?” Because she’s not in office and has no influence. We’re investigating the evil guy in charge, not the Sunday School teacher you didn’t like. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/145 "2017-10-30T18:28:57Z")
I’ve heard that Manafort was laundering money by borrowing money from one Russian, buying a condo, then selling that condo to another Russian. It is often mentioned that the condos were in Trump properties, but does it matter where the condos were? I can’t see how that implicates Trump in any way. Does the Trump Tower get a cut of all condo sales or something? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/146 "2017-10-30T18:30:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Why do they keep acting like Clinton is still running? It is the easiest to rebut concept. “Why not Clinton?” Because she’s not in office and has no influence. We’re investigating the evil guy in charge, not the Sunday School teacher you didn’t like. First of all, don’t be so sure isn’t still running. Second of all, there is no one else who is going to draw attention to better than Hillary. If she did something illegal (I don’t think she did, but if), she would be vulnerable for prosecution. Third of all, his base supporters hate her more than anyone else. And, no we are not “investigating the evil guy in charge”, although he may be or may come under investigation at some point. The investigation is much broader than Trump, if it even includes him at all. Not sure where you got that from. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/147 "2017-10-30T18:32:47Z")
Interesting take on the Manafort/Papadopoulos news from Seth Abramson: [Thread by @SethAbramson on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App](https://tttthreads.com/thread/924988111880417280) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/148 "2017-10-30T18:38:43Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > To get rid of Trump, congress & senate will have to act. Unless that happen ;Trump will pardon all his cronies and find some way to get rid of Mueller. Every shred of decency has long ago left the man so there is really nothing stopping him. This. Trump will stay as long as the political enablers keep him there. And while he’s there, he’ll inflict whatever damage on the country he feels like. DJ Trump before family Family before friends Friends before rich members of the Party Rich members of the party before any other members Party before country ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/149 "2017-10-30T18:52:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > First of all, don’t be so sure isn’t still running. … ANY party even considering the most remote of possibilities of her running deserves another rout at the hands of the Tangerine Turd. But then, I’m not seeing any real leadership in the Dem Party either. Someone, anyone? Bueller, you wanna run? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/150 "2017-10-30T18:53:46Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This. > > Trump will stay as long as the political enablers keep him there. And while he’s there, he’ll inflict whatever damage on the country he feels like. > > DJ Trump before family > Family before friends > Friends before rich members of the Party > Rich members of the party before any other members > Party before country I think his pecking order is: DJT Himself Money Family Other Whites The Great Unwashed Masses ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/151 "2017-10-30T19:03:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Interesting take on the Manafort/Papadopoulos news from Seth Abramson: [Thread by @SethAbramson on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App](https://tttthreads.com/thread/924988111880417280) Goddamn! That’s fascinating and really informative. Thanks for posting that. I wanted to post a few of the most important Tweets, but they’re all just jaw-dropping. Everyone should read **jsgoddess’s** link. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/152 "2017-10-30T19:06:23Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Goddamn! That’s fascinating and really informative. Thanks for posting that. I wanted to post a few of the most important Tweets, but they’re all just jaw-dropping. > > Everyone should read **jsgoddess’s** link. Agreed. It’s great stuff. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/153 "2017-10-30T19:08:46Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The funding for the dossier OPRIGINALLY came from conservative Republicans, not the Clinton camp. Right, but that doesn’t really negate **Bricker** ’s point. He simply noted that the dossier was “prepared by a foreign citizen and used by the Clinton campaign against Trump,” which is true, even if the dossier was not originally prepared for the Clinton campaign. I haven’t seen the arguments that he’s referring to, where some Dopers allegedly claimed that “any time a foreign citizen contributed valuable information to a campaign, this was illegal.” But if some people did say this, and if they truly believe that foreign citizens contributing information to a campaign is illegal, then that argument should still apply in this case, even if the document wasn’t prepared at the explicit request of the Clinton campaign. I’d be interested to see the claims that he’s talking about, though. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/154 "2017-10-30T19:12:47Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Goddamn! That’s fascinating and really informative. Thanks for posting that. I wanted to post a few of the most important Tweets, but they’re all just jaw-dropping. > > Everyone should read **jsgoddess’s** link. it’s making me hopeful! > [@](#): > > We mustn’t forget that in a case in which evidence is _scarce_ a prosecutor would have to start _much_ lower on the chain than Manafort. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/155 "2017-10-30T19:13:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Second of all, there is no one else who is going to draw attention to better than Hillary. Tru dat. She’s in the Emmanuel Goldstein role in this _1984_ parody. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/156 "2017-10-30T19:16:32Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’d be interested to see the claims that he’s talking about, though. Don’t hold your breath waiting. He’s made a habit lately of making claims like that about stuff I’ve supposedly said in past threads, without providing any substantiation. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/157 "2017-10-30T19:26:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Interesting take on the Manafort/Papadopoulos news from Seth Abramson: [Thread by @SethAbramson on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App](https://tttthreads.com/thread/924988111880417280) From the link: > [@](#): > > Between now and March 31, 2018 we can expect more indictments. Almost certainly Carter Page, Jared Kushner, and Mike Flynn—at a minimum. May it be so. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving group of guys - excluding the President, of course. Someone cracked recently on Twitter that Jared would surely get into prison - he’s a legacy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/158 "2017-10-30T19:27:35Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Right, but that doesn’t really negate **Bricker** ’s point. > > He simply noted that the dossier was “prepared by a foreign citizen and used by the Clinton campaign against Trump,” which is true, even if the dossier was not originally prepared for the Clinton campaign. The Clinton campaign did not use the dossier. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/159 "2017-10-30T19:28:53Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Interesting take on the Manafort/Papadopoulos news from Seth Abramson: [Thread by @SethAbramson on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App](https://tttthreads.com/thread/924988111880417280) Damn, there’s some \*nuggets \*in there. Abramson seems to believe today is the beginning of the end for the Trump admin, but that things are going to get uglier from here. “We must cast aside old notions of what sort of behavior is “likely” in a politician and how/whether independent journos can contribute…Things will get worse in America—very ugly—before they get better. We all must prepare ourselves now with knowledge of the facts.” Everyone stop what you’re doing and read that link. My favorite from that Tweet series: > [@](#): > > 102/ I want to make a perhaps obvious point: were Trump not a narcissist, we might expect him to resign the presidency this week. He’s done. > > 103/ He told America for months and months and months he knew of no Russia connections on his campaign. But he _did_—as of March 31st, 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/160 "2017-10-30T19:32:44Z")
From the Seth Abramson thread: > [@](#): > > 68/ Papadopoulos met a Russian national to set up a Kremlin channel for Trump on 3/24/16. It now seems clear he told Trump this on 3/31/16. > > 69/ This means Trump ordered a GOP platform change to benefit Russia _pre-hacking_ and _after_ being told the Kremlin wanted a relationship. > > 70/ That is to say, it now seems release of the DNC emails was a quid pro quo from Trump ordering Gordon to change the GOP platform 3/31/16. > > 72/ If Trump ordered the GOP platform change after Papadopoulos laid out the Kremlin’s interest in him—and he did—collusion has been proven. > > 73/ I said this before—that the GOP platform change was _provably_ collusion—but _now_ we know Mueller has that witness in his back pocket. > > \ > > 122/ Remember that—as I tweeted a week ago—Trump _elevated_ Papadopoulos to a Russia-policy spokesman upon learning he was a Kremlin agent. > > 123/ By April 7, 2016—7 days after revealing himself—Papadopoulos was in Israel explaining Trump’s Russia policy to well-connected Israelis. > > 124/ This despite the minimal professional qualification Papadopoulos had for being on the NatSec team having to do with Middle Eastern oil. > > 125/ So every action Trump and his team took in response to Papadopoulos outing himself as a Kremlin intermediary augmented his Russia role. > > 126/ And every action Trump and his team took once they knew they had a Kremlin intermediary aboard was to seek new secret ties with Russia. I think those were the most striking ones to me. But, really, the whole thing is amazing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=9)