# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 85
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1681 "2018-01-12T18:13:13Z")
> [@](#): > > …What happens if the “only” thing that the investigation uncovers is a decades long history of massive money laundering, and the Russian collusion remains smoky, but no smoking gun? Actually, that’s what I think will happen. Little doubt that some of the Trump-a-lumps colluded, but not the Big Kornhola. Would you? Would you cook up a covert scheme and give all the details to some airheaded motormouth? It’s the money. Big money leaves big footprints, and they can be found and tracked. Then he gets an offer. We can take you to court and bring all this out in the open, and all the bankers and backers who played along. We will publish your exact and actual net worth, and start levying fines and repayments until you walk away broke and look for a gold-themed bridge to live under. Or, you could quietly resign to spend more time with your hamburgers. Adios, motherfucker. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1682 "2018-01-12T18:28:04Z")
I worry that there will be obvious money laundering, but no actual way to prove it. Russian wants to buy a property, pays all in cash over market value. Sure it’s a common laundering technique, but is there any way to PROVE that it’s laundering and not some guy who really wants that property and even more importantly prove that Trump knew about it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1683 "2018-01-12T18:36:20Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You have to think in terms of two parallel tracks. > > The criminal investigation (under Mueller) will continue, and may very well produce indictments for money laundering, etc. of Jared & Ivanka & Junior & Carter Page… > > Impeachment of DJT Himself is a political question. As long as Republicans control the House, nothing (up to and including shooting someone on 5th Avenue) is impeachable. If Democrats take control…well, they have enough material already. It’s this intersection that I’m asking about. I have very, very little doubt that Trump has been shady as hell and that his finances do not hold up to even a modicum of scrutiny. I have little doubt that Mueller will produces reams of evidence that money has been illegally moved about. I have little doubt that this will be iron clad. But, can the GOP really just ignore this, or will they have to impeach? Or, will something happen behind the scenes and Trump just up and resigns one day after being given an offer that he can’t refuse? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1684 "2018-01-12T18:45:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite for the part I bolded, please? > > Also, what do you mean “shopped around”? What does the word “shopped” mean in this context, exactly? It’s been widely report. [For example](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/christopher-steele-investigation-dossier-trump-republicans-justice-department-criminal-probe-a8144321.html): “In addition to passing his finding to Fusion GPS, Mr Steele is understood to have shown his information to various journalists.” ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1685 "2018-01-12T18:54:50Z")
BTW, there’s a pretty interesting and comprehensive-though-fairly-short article about the dossier out in [Vox](https://www.vox.com/2018/1/5/16845704/steele-dossier-russia-trump%5B/url). I don’t know if I agree with everything in that article, but it’s a pretty balanced and sober look at the matter. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1686 "2018-01-12T18:55:07Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Impeachment of DJT Himself is a political question. As long as Republicans control the House, nothing (up to and including shooting someone on 5th Avenue) is impeachable. If Democrats take control…well, they have enough material already. The Democrats can take control of the House, but to convict Trump in the Senate requires 67 votes, an impossibility. Trump will never be removed via impeachment. There is nothing he can do that will make a Republican Senator vote to convict. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1687 "2018-01-12T19:06:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s been widely report. [For example](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/christopher-steele-investigation-dossier-trump-republicans-justice-department-criminal-probe-a8144321.html): “In addition to passing his finding to Fusion GPS, Mr Steele is understood to have shown his information to various journalists.” The verb changed in your retelling. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1688 "2018-01-12T20:38:06Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Or, will something happen behind the scenes and Trump just up and resigns one day after being given an offer that he can’t refuse? He could buy a shit-hole country and move all his stuff there. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1689 "2018-01-12T20:54:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The Democrats can take control of the House, but to convict Trump in the Senate requires 67 votes, an impossibility. Trump will never be removed via impeachment. There is nothing he can do that will make a Republican Senator vote to convict. I agree with this, although I will note that one should never count out Donald’s willingness to lower his behavior. But Russian collusion and Russian money runs all through the RNC. The whole party is rotten. They’re not going to lift a finger against Donald. Oh look - I just got a news alert telling me that Donald paid off a porn star to the tune of $130k and his lawyer arranged the payment. What stellar Christain values! There is still an outside chance that Republican voters will abandon the party. They won’t vote Democrat, of course, but they might stay home in disgust. As for criminal charges, the smart play is probably to wait on them until the Trumps are out of office and then file state charges that can’t be pardoned. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1690 "2018-01-12T21:02:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The Democrats can take control of the House, but to convict Trump in the Senate requires 67 votes, an impossibility. Trump will never be removed via impeachment. There is nothing he can do that will make a Republican Senator vote to convict. I won’t say never, but it does seem highly unlikely. However, what the Democrats can do, at minimum, is to restart the Mueller investigation should it be ended and swept under the rug prematurely. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1691 "2018-01-12T21:11:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The Democrats can take control of the House, but to convict Trump in the Senate requires 67 votes, an impossibility. Trump will never be removed via impeachment. There is nothing he can do that will make a Republican Senator vote to convict. The way I see it: some of the Republican senators have some core of human decency and may eventually be pushed too far and vote to convict. For many, however, the only way their vote will flip is if they become convinced that failing to do so will cost them re-election. That is always foremost in their minds. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1692 "2018-01-12T21:18:30Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I won’t say never, but it does seem highly unlikely. However, what the Democrats can do, at minimum, is to restart the Mueller investigation should it be ended and swept under the rug prematurely. If nothing else…if either the Senate or the House comes under Democratic control in 2018 we can expect non-stop investigatory hearings, to continue until the end of the Trump presidency. Kind of like the Republicans did to Hillary, except with the advantage of having reality on their side. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1693 "2018-01-12T21:21:57Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > The way I see it: some of the Republican senators have some core of human decency and may eventually be pushed too far and vote to convict. For many, however, the only way their vote will flip is if they become convinced that failing to do so will cost them re-election. That is always foremost in their minds. This is what I think, too. It’s one thing to form a thin traitorous line when you’re in the majority and all your cohorts are egging you on to do it for the “good of the party.” It’s something else entirely when public opinion has turned so solidly against you that your party has been run out on a rail, you’re now in a pathetic minority and the whole country is baying for blood. Somehow, you might suddenly want to be on the right side of history and possibly save your own skin in the process. It took a loooooonnnnnnngggg time for public opinion to become a factor in Watergate. But when it did, public pressure would not be denied. I expect a similar outcome here, nefarious Russian interference notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1694 "2018-01-12T21:34:28Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You have to think in terms of two parallel tracks. > > The criminal investigation (under Mueller) will continue, and may very well produce indictments for money laundering, etc. of Jared & Ivanka & Junior & Carter Page… > > Impeachment of DJT Himself is a political question. As long as Republicans control the House, nothing (up to and including shooting someone on 5th Avenue) is impeachable. If Democrats take control…well, they have enough material already. Three tracks, I believe. There’s the Collusion (sic) track, the Obstruction track and the Other Crimes Encountered During the Investigation track, such as money laundering, perjury, etc. I think Mueller is proceeding quite speedily along the Obstruction track. I also think he’s further along on the Collusion track than is generally known, based on flipping Flynn and Papadopoulos, his hires and the little we know through his court filings. The Other Crimes Encountered track is the one that will take the longest, and is likely to continue throughout 2018, well into 2019 and maybe even beyond. I expect the results of the multi-track investigation to unfold on different timelines. Once the results begin to be revealed in earnest, I think it will preoccupy our national attention almost continuously for a very long time. Mueller is not doing this just for shits and giggles. Nor is he occupying the time of a lot of very high-powered people for no good reason. There’s a lot there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1695 "2018-01-12T22:15:15Z")
Used to be, if I recall, that people who ratted out a tax cheat would get a percentage. Is that still out there? Cause, if so, there is definitely some people stroking their chins and pondering the juicy prospect. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1696 "2018-01-12T22:18:28Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > If nothing else…if either the Senate or the House comes under Democratic control in 2018 we can expect non-stop investigatory hearings, to continue until the end of the Trump presidency. > > Kind of like the Republicans did to Hillary, except with the advantage of having reality on their side. I would rather there not be hearings – just let Mueller do his job, let him present the evidence in a court of law, and let jurors decide what happens to everyone around Trump. Let voters then decide what happens to Trump in 2020 if he hasn’t quit or been confined to a mental health facility by that point. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1697 "2018-01-12T22:20:59Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > This is what I think, too. > > It’s one thing to form a thin traitorous line when you’re in the majority and all your cohorts are egging you on to do it for the “good of the party.” > > It’s something else entirely when public opinion has turned so solidly against you that your party has been run out on a rail, you’re now in a pathetic minority and the whole country is baying for blood. > > Somehow, you might suddenly want to be on the right side of history and possibly save your own skin in the process. > > It took a loooooonnnnnnngggg time for public opinion to become a factor in Watergate. But when it did, public pressure would not be denied. I expect a similar outcome here, nefarious Russian interference notwithstanding. I don’t think there is necessarily going to a super majority of the country against Trump. At most 60% ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1698 "2018-01-12T22:29:37Z")
Sixty percent is a massive landslide in modern times. Custer vs Crazy Horse. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1699 "2018-01-12T23:15:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sixty percent is a massive landslide in modern times. Custer vs Crazy Horse. True, but it’s weak support. It can be reversed. Unless there’s another Great Depression on Trump’s watch, the Democratic party will have to be careful about impeaching Trump. The country isn’t really behind the Democratic party; it’s just that a lot of progressives have been inspired to use the Democratic party to make a statement against Trumpism. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1700 "2018-01-12T23:16:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sixty percent is a massive landslide in modern times. Custer vs Crazy Horse. Trump has a disapproval rating of 55% at the moment, so it’s not that far a stretch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=84) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=86)