# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1741 "2018-01-16T06:18:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > One should only say good things about the dead. Nixon is dead. Good. “People don’t become better when they’re dead; you just talk about them as if they are. But it’s not true! People are still assholes, they’re just dead assholes!”. – Lemmy ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1742 "2018-01-16T12:09:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Tell us again why you root for them anyway. Funny thing is that nobody around here claims to be for Trump. Just trying to be fair and balanced, liberals just as bad, “both parties are exactly the same”, something something. But while they’re carrying water in the “both sides” bucket, seems like they’re always carrying it for Republicans no matter who or what is in charge. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1743 "2018-01-16T16:11:07Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I hope he gets the black make-up wearing head rolling church burning death-metal Norwegians 😃 Ooooo! I love that! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1744 "2018-01-16T16:53:16Z")
[Bannon subpoenad by Mueller](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/us/politics/steve-bannon-mueller-russia-subpoena.html) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1745 "2018-01-16T17:11:16Z")
Oh goody! That made my day! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1746 "2018-01-16T17:16:34Z")
One presumes that there is a difference between being asked to come give a deposition to Mueller and his team, and being subpoenaed to a grand jury. I would assume that the latter is bad. Does it spell bad things for Bannon, Trump, or both? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1747 "2018-01-16T17:24:29Z")
Criminal suspects are not usually subpoenaed to testify at their own grand juries. So if Mueller does suspect Bannon of something, this subpoena probably isn’t related. Federal grand juries cast a wide net; they’ll subpoena everyone and everything and see what sticks. I don’t think Bannon knows much, if anything about Russia. He certainly won’t have any insights into the Trump family’s pre-campaign dealings with shady figures, and he wasn’t involved in the infamous Trump Tower meeting and subsequent shenanigans with Manafort and Trump Jr. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1748 "2018-01-16T17:42:10Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > One presumes that there is a difference between being asked to come give a deposition to Mueller and his team, and being subpoenaed to a grand jury. I would assume that the latter is bad. > > Does it spell bad things for Bannon, Trump, or both? We know that after Fire and Fury Bannon is dead to Trump. The question is whether the feeling is mutual. If so there is probably not much of a down side for Bannon to spill his guts. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1749 "2018-01-16T17:45:45Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > We know that after Fire and Fury Bannon is dead to Trump. The question is whether the feeling is mutual. The book itself is evidence that it is. Except that Bannon may be dead in Trump’s eyes, but Trump definitely needs some revenge in Bannon’s eyes. He’s gonna give Mueller everything he can think of - and the timing of the subpoena just may be related to the book’s publication, whaddaya think? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1750 "2018-01-16T17:57:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The book itself is evidence that it is. Except that Bannon may be dead in Trump’s eyes, but Trump definitely needs some revenge in Bannon’s eyes. He’s gonna give Mueller everything he can think of - and the timing of the subpoena just may be related to the book’s publication, whaddaya think? Bannon’s dedication to his xenophobic, Leninist agenda would appear to have him still supporting Trump. Trump is the guy who could destroy the state, and that’s Bannon’s dream. He has no interest in a real politician sitting in the Oval Office. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1751 "2018-01-16T18:02:49Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I don’t think Bannon knows much, if anything about Russia. He certainly won’t have any insights into the Trump family’s pre-campaign dealings with shady figures, and he wasn’t involved in the infamous Trump Tower meeting and subsequent shenanigans with Manafort and Trump Jr. I believe Bannon joined the campaign subsequent to that meeting. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The book itself is evidence that it is. Except that Bannon may be dead in Trump’s eyes, but Trump definitely needs some revenge in Bannon’s eyes. I think Bannon was out for Kushner, not Trump. It would have been predictable that a quote saying that the Trump campaign engaged in treasonous activity would enrage Trump himself. But it’s very likely that Bannon did not expected to be identified as the author of that quote. (Wolff has admitted to burning many of his sources in the book.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1752 "2018-01-16T18:05:57Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Bannon’s dedication to his xenophobic, Leninist agenda would appear to have him still supporting Trump. Then he wouldn’t have cooperated with Wolfe, unless he’s more bent on personal outrage than ideology. I don’t see Bannon as being naive enough to think Trump is really an agent of nihilism rather than just an old toddler. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1753 "2018-01-16T18:19:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I believe Bannon joined the campaign subsequent to that meeting.I think Bannon was out for Kushner, not Trump. > > It would have been predictable that a quote saying that the Trump campaign engaged in treasonous activity would enrage Trump himself. But it’s very likely that Bannon did not expected to be identified as the author of that quote. (Wolff has admitted to burning many of his sources in the book.) Bannon being out for Kushner would still be bad for Trump by extension, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1754 "2018-01-16T19:29:39Z")
Bannon’s exposure in the investigation is through his connections to Cambridge Analytica, the Mercers, WikiLeaks and Julian Assange, who appear to be quite entangled with data manipulation and targeting of specific voters by the Russians during the election. Bannon also worked closely with Kushner through that phase of the election. I’m sure much finger pointing will occur over the next several months with respect to these relationships and who was responsible for what criminal activity. Happily, Bannon doesn’t know what Mueller knows. I doubt Mueller’s subpoena in this instance relates to that activity. But who knows? Maybe Mueller has decided he’d rather have Kushner than Bannon and needs Bannon’s testimony to make it stick. Re Bannon’s questioning today by the House Intelligence Committee, that’ll just be more muddying of the waters. Bannon is already trying to return to Trump’s good graces, and the House committee is so tainted and corrupt, they’ll just be trying to shill for Trump through Bannon. Adam Shiff and others will do their best, but I’m not expecting much beyond attempts at misdirection by Devin Nunes and his cronies. On the bright side, Bannon is constrained in what he can say to them by his need to stay consistent with what he tells Mueller. He can’t lie for Nunes in order to make Trump look good, and then perjure himself when confronted by Mueller. That will muzzle Bannon quite a bit today, I expect. I wonder what lawyer Bannon will dig up to help him with the Grand Jury? The lawyer representing him today with the House committee made it clear that his representation extended _only_ to today’s hearing. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1755 "2018-01-16T19:38:10Z")
The speculation is that the grand jury subpoena (vs just an interview) was in order to have Bannon answer questions without his lawyer sitting next to him. In the grand jury, apparently, you don’t get to have legal representation in the room. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1756 "2018-01-16T19:41:04Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Re Bannon’s questioning today by the House Intelligence Committee, that’ll just be more muddying of the waters. Bannon is already trying to return to Trump’s good graces, and the House committee is so tainted and corrupt, they’ll just be trying to shill for Trump through Bannon. Adam Shiff and others will do their best, but I’m not expecting much beyond attempts at misdirection by Devin Nunes and his cronies. > > On the bright side, Bannon is constrained in what he can say to them by his need to stay consistent with what he tells Mueller. He can’t lie for Nunes in order to make Trump look good, and then perjure himself when confronted by Mueller. That will muzzle Bannon quite a bit today, I expect. > > I wonder what lawyer Bannon will dig up to help him with the Grand Jury? The lawyer representing him today with the House committee made it clear that his representation extended _only_ to today’s hearing. I just posted this in the CF thread, but it is appropriate here, in context with the above: > [@](#): > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/status/953332280277241856) > > “Sources say Bannon told by WH not to answer questions before House Intel Cmte about the White House and the transition. Did not assert executive privilege. Committee subpoenas him during the meeting to comply while in the hearing.” > > To unpack this: > > Bannon goes to the committee, > Refuses to testify, said he was acting on orders from the WH, > Does not claim Executive Privilege (not too sure he could, given he is a private citizen, but anyway) > **While sitting in front of the committee _Bannon is served with a subpoena, compelling him to testify to the committee_** > > These people should have paid more attention during the transition. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1757 "2018-01-16T19:49:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I just posted this in the CF thread, but it is appropriate here, in context with the above: ROFL!! Too funny!! Looks like Bannon will be discussing another attempt at obstruction charge by the White House with the committee, too. And eventually, Mueller. They will never learn! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1758 "2018-01-16T19:51:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The speculation is that the grand jury subpoena (vs just an interview) was in order to have Bannon answer questions without his lawyer sitting next to him. In the grand jury, apparently, you don’t get to have legal representation in the room. That’s true, which is why I said “help” him. I understand the lawyer can’t be in the room with him. But if he’s smart, he will surely hire someone to assist him in how to answer questions to a grand jury and how to avoid perjury traps. (Easy enough. Tell the truth!) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1759 "2018-01-16T19:54:12Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > That’s true, which is why I said “help” him. I understand the lawyer can’t be in the room with him. But if he’s smart, he will surely hire someone to assist him in how to answer questions to a grand jury and how to avoid perjury traps. (Easy enough. **Tell the truth!** ) He’s dead meat, then. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/1760 "2018-01-16T19:57:02Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He’s dead meat, then. I agree. They’re all dead meat, eventually. So much lying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=87) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=89)