# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 28, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093 "2017-10-28T20:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/161 "2017-10-30T19:36:22Z")
Abramson is overstating things significantly. But as long as we’re into the interesting speculation genre, this one is a doozy: [Did George Papadopoulos wear a wire for Mueller? – HotAir](https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/30/george-papadopoulos-wear-wire-mueller/) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/162 "2017-10-30T19:42:44Z")
Newsweek [reminds](http://www.newsweek.com/mike-pence-was-handpicked-paul-manafort-696412) us that Manafort was instrumental in getting Trump to pick Mike Pence as his running mate. Manafort went so far as to lie to Trump about a mechanical failure on his plane to get him to spend more time in Indiana with Pence. Now, why would Manafort be so heavily invested in getting Pence on the ticket? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/163 "2017-10-30T19:44:06Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And the sTrumpets on CNN are claiming “there’s no evidence so it’s over” and trying to take the discussion to Obama and Clinton. Don’t tell me, let me guess: They’re talking really loud and really fast and repeating their talking points and bulldozing over everyone else, not letting them get a word in edgewise. Did I get that right? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/164 "2017-10-30T19:44:49Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Abramson is overstating things significantly. Yeah, I can’t follow the declaration that Trump knew about Papadopoulos on March 31. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/165 "2017-10-30T19:46:42Z")
There’s an interesting nugget related to the Manafort indictment. One of the shell companies used by Manafort and Gates, Bade LLC, was paid $70,000 between November 2016 and January 2017 by the Republican National Committee. Supposedly, Manafort was working for free when he was in charge of the Trump campaign… > **[Firm in Mueller indictment got RNC funds for work on Trump campaign](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article181708151.html)** > > A company listed in the Monday indictment of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and his associate Rick Gates received funds from the Republican National Committee for work done in coordination with Donald Trump’s election campaign. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/166 "2017-10-30T19:47:22Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > He was literally yelling “Whatabout”. That bulldog-faced guy, Ben something, right? Can’t stand that obnoxious asshole, always hit the mute button when he starts spewing his crap. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/167 "2017-10-30T19:48:45Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Abramson is overstating things significantly. > > But as long as we’re into the interesting speculation genre, this one is a doozy: [https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/30/george-papadopoulos-wear-wire-mueller/](https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/30/george-papadopoulos-wear-wire-mueller/) Hotair is not among my most trusted news sources. You’re a lawyer, aren’t you? Is what they’re saying about “proactive cooperator” being a euphemism for someone who will wear a wire plausible? If Abramson is overstating, then I’ll temper my excitement. I may have got a little too wrapped up in my zeal to see more bombs fall. I’ll try to calm down. For a while. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/168 "2017-10-30T19:51:28Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Hotair is not among my most trusted news sources. You’re a lawyer, aren’t you? Is what they’re saying about “proactive cooperator” being a euphemism for someone who will wear a wire plausible? > > If Abramson is overstating, then I’ll temper my excitement. I may have got a little too wrapped up in my zeal to see more bombs fall. I’ll try to calm down. For a while. I agree that Hotair is usually an accurate description. But in this case, they’re not wrong. It’s definitely in the realm of speculation. But you might call it educated speculation. If you were Mueller and you had a cooperator whose name somehow hadn’t leaked, why _wouldn’t_ you see what you could get on a wire? Would sort of be malpractice not to try. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/169 "2017-10-30T20:01:52Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I agree that Hotair is usually an accurate description. But in this case, they’re not wrong. It’s definitely in the realm of speculation. But you might call it educated speculation. > > If you were Mueller and you had a cooperator whose name somehow hadn’t leaked, why _wouldn’t_ you see what you could get on a wire? Would sort of be malpractice not to try. Interesting, thanks. If there are recordings… That would be something. 🙂 There must be a lot of brown trousers inside the Administration today. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/170 "2017-10-30T20:16:36Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Interesting take on the Manafort/Papadopoulos news from Seth Abramson: [Thread by @SethAbramson on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App](https://tttthreads.com/thread/924988111880417280) Wow! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/171 "2017-10-30T20:18:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Nothing scares a rich guy like the prospect of becoming a poor one. Decency has long fled, true, but fear remains. “You know, it occurs to me that the best way you hurt rich people is by turning them into poor people.” -Billy Ray Valentine, _Trading Places_ (1983) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/172 "2017-10-30T20:37:34Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yeah, I can’t follow the declaration that Trump knew about Papadopoulos on March 31. Also, the claim that Trump changed the platform on 3/31 as part of a quid pro quo in exchange for release of the emails ignores the plea stipulation, which says Papadopolous was told the Russians had emails on about April 26 or so. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/173 "2017-10-30T20:41:25Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Also, the claim that Trump changed the platform on 3/31 as part of a quid pro quo in exchange for release of the emails ignores the plea stipulation, which says Papadopolous was told the Russians had emails on about April 26 or so. The platform was changed in July, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/174 "2017-10-30T20:44:02Z")
I don’t know. I just went with what this guy wrote in #59 & #70. Either way, it doesn’t suggest that much confidence should be put in his other claims. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/175 "2017-10-30T20:49:32Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The platform was changed in July, wasn’t it? July 18, 2016. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/176 "2017-10-30T20:52:01Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t know. I just went with what this guy wrote in #59 & #70. Either way, it doesn’t suggest that much confidence should be put in his other claims. Always cast doubt… The guy does a pretty impressive quick summary that runs over a hundred items. One would expect a few don’t line up, but overall an extremely interesting analysis. Or are you not seeing a very thick smoke coming out on the collusion with Russia thing? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/177 "2017-10-30T20:56:12Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I’ve heard that Manafort was laundering money by borrowing money from one Russian, buying a condo, then selling that condo to another Russian. It is often mentioned that the condos were in Trump properties, but does it matter where the condos were? I can’t see how that implicates Trump in any way. Does the Trump Tower get a cut of all condo sales or something? I don’t think they get a cut of all condos that were never sold in the first place, so if demand was low, as things tend to be for sketchy overpriced property, it could have helped. ETA for just orange-licensed properties it could be different if it’s only his name. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/178 "2017-10-30T20:56:16Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > The guy does a pretty impressive quick summary that runs over a hundred items. One would expect a few don’t line up, but overall an extremely interesting analysis. Or are you not seeing a very thick smoke coming out on the collusion with Russia thing? I don’t know about that. Most of the most damning things he writes are speculation or assertions that “we know that …” which don’t seem to have any apparent basis. Of course, when a guy like me reads something like that I have to consider the possibility that some of these things are genuinely “known” to people who follow these things more closely than I’ve been doing. But if I see some egregious mistakes - which seem to feature heavily in his analysis (since the platform seems to be the primary form of collusion that he’s alleging) then that plus all the speculative aspects seems to suggest that he’s a nutcase or partisan CT rather than a more sober analyst. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/179 "2017-10-30T21:06:50Z")
I just read some comments on a Fox News article, and I hate to tell you this, but we’ve got it all wrong. This is still a nothingburger and has nothing to do with Trump. Mueller, a Democrat shill, is grasping at straws, and not only should be fired but brought up on charges himself. There’s nothing wrong or illegal about contacting a foreign government to try to get dirt on your opponent. Hillary did the same thing, and she should be indicted for it. This is all just a ploy to divert attention from the real scandal, which is Hillary personally selling uranium to the Russians. Boy, now do I feel embarrassed. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093/180 "2017-10-30T21:15:14Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I just read some comments on a Fox News article, and I hate to tell you this, but we’ve got it all wrong. > > This is still a nothingburger and has nothing to do with Trump. Mueller, a Democrat shill, is grasping at straws, and not only should be fired but brought up on charges himself. There’s nothing wrong or illegal about contacting a foreign government to try to get dirt on your opponent. Hillary did the same thing, and she should be indicted for it. This is all just a ploy to divert attention from the real scandal, which is Hillary personally selling uranium to the Russians. > > Boy, now do I feel embarrassed. All those horrible jokes and _this_ is what you’re embarrassed about? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-1/800093.md?page=10)