# A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2021, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549 "2021-07-15T10:22:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/21 "2021-07-15T17:18:06Z")
Regarding the veracity of the documents, I note that it seems that none of the other mainstream media outlets (Washington post, New York times, CNN) have picked up on this even to the point of just saying “unverified reports from the Guardian…” It may be that it is just so new that they haven’t had time to digest it, but it may also be that they are skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/22 "2021-07-15T17:22:42Z")
I was noticing the same thing. Crickets in the rest of the media. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/23 "2021-07-15T17:25:14Z")
I imagine they’re hard at work on verifying the story. If they immediately run with it and it turns out to be fake, it just helps Trump. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/24 "2021-07-15T17:38:34Z")
Caution is appropriate, but remember: 1. 17 intelligence agencies said Trump was compromised 2. The US senate report on Russian interference stated “The Committee found that the Russian government engaged in an aggressive, multifaceted effort to influence, or attempt to influence, the outcome of the 2016 presidential election.” 3. The Mueller report 4. We saw Trump literally ask Russia for help 5. And then, over his 4 years as President, we watched Trump sow discord, destroy our institutions, damage the Federal Government, make our allies distrust us, and, with his COVID response, is responsible for the deaths of a half-million Americans. If you believe the Senate, Mueller, your own eyes, even Trump himself, then these documents likely reflect the process by which this started. And, to points made above, it fits with expectations, true. But it also fits the narrative _as we watched it unfold_. Sometimes the smoke IS a fire. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/25 "2021-07-15T17:52:32Z")
Just because the underlying conclusion is correct doesn’t mean that the individual piece of evidence is authentic, and as we have seen before a carefully placed bit of bad evidence, can have the effect of de-legitimizing, a whole slew of actual real evidence. @ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness raised an important note of caution in the parallel Schadenfreuda thread on the same topic. > [@A Perfectly Reasonable Amount of Schadenfreude about Things Happening to Trump & His Enablers (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/2113): > > Nailed it a little too closely for my taste. I’m getting a strong Dan Rather/Bush AWOL-vibe from this one. Release a fake that “proves” what the left already believes, watch the media feeding frenzy, then expose it as a fake and shut down discussion of the issue forever. > > Remember 2004? The Bush AWOL story was deader than dead after Rather ran with the fake documents, even though there was still plenty of other evidence supporting the AWOL stories. > > (And yes, that’s a conspiracy theory I actually believe without any concrete proof. Dan Rather was set up by a Bush supporter, possibly even someone with ties to the Bush campaign.) ETA: or I could just let him speak for himself 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/26 "2021-07-15T17:52:58Z")
My problem with it is for something supposedly written before the 2016 primaries began, it is too on-the-nose. As I mentioned in the schadenfreude thread, I’m getting a Dan Rather Bush AWOL memo vibe. The one conspiracy theory I personally believe without a shred of confirming evidence is that Dan Rather was set up by a Bush supporter. AWOL story was gaining traction, the memo came out and was immediately debunked by a “random” internet sleuth, and the media immediately ran from the story, despite tons of other evidence supporting the allegations. Same thing here. Try this one… Kremlin appears to throw Trump under the bus by leaking a memo that “proves” everything the left already believes to be true. Once the media bites, expose it as a fake. In the future: Trump is beholden to Russia - “That was proven to be fake” What about McConnell’s never-built aluminum plant? - “Russia is a fake story” What about those 8 Senators who spent July 4 in Moscow? - “The Russia story was fake” NRA laundering Russian money? - “Fake” Russia is fucking with our elections? - "Fake"a From here on out, the media is gunshy about reporting any Russian connections in any context because everyone “knows” the “Russia stories are fake”. Now Russia has cover for more fuckery. Edit: Thanks for the assist @Buck_Godot ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/27 "2021-07-15T17:58:28Z")
Lol, but that’s what Trump supporters are already saying and have been doing so since 2016. Playing a game to get the opponent to do what they’ve been doing for the 5 years prior makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/28 "2021-07-15T18:01:05Z")
Forbes has picked it up: > **[Trump Kompromat Claimed: Kremlin Documents Reportedly Show Putin Conspiring...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/07/15/trump-kompromat-claimed-report-says-kremlin-documents-show-putin-conspiring-for-billionaire/?sh=7d1fe3086b1e)** > > The Russian President reportedly met with his spy chiefs and senior ministers in early 2016 and agreed to back a “mentally unstable” Donald Trump’s candidacy. Plus, one of the things I’ve seen (can’t remember which outlet) is that there are rumours that western intel agencies have had these docs for some time, not as a result of a Kremlin leak but as a result of western spy craft. If so, that opens the possibility of a _western_ government leaking them to uncover Putin’s activités. Where’s Smiley when you need him? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/29 "2021-07-15T18:13:09Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > It may be that it is just so new that they haven’t had time to digest it, but it may also be that they are skeptical. I agree, and had also linked to [ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)’s comments - now I see others have done the same. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/30 "2021-07-15T18:26:21Z")
The Guardian may be a pinko paper but I believe it has generally sound reporting processes. I hope US media is doing its own due diligence; writing only “according to reports in the Guardian” isn’t generally good journalistic practice imo. I’d like to see some independent confirmation from others before getting carried away. And even then, as JohnT noted above, we’ve had tons of reporting from intelligence services saying essentially the same thing and it probably didn’t cost The Don a single voter. And it should have. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/31 "2021-07-15T18:35:23Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > And even then, as JohnT noted above, we’ve had tons of reporting from intelligence services saying essentially the same thing and it probably didn’t cost The Don a single voter. And it should have. The remaining Republicans in the party are essentially Russian assets/Putin voters now. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/32 "2021-07-15T19:09:38Z")
Some people out there are calling for caution: > **[Intel experts tap the brakes on bombshell Trump kompromat revelations](https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-kompromat/)** > > Some intelligence experts are urging caution over a bombshell report that leaked documents show Russia holds blackmail leverage over Donald Trump, and that Vladimir Putin personally authorized Kremlin spy agencies to work to get him elected U.S.... ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/33 "2021-07-16T00:38:35Z")
I think Kremlin leak is an oxymoron. These guys just don’t leak. It could be they want to discredit their former stooge-in-chief, maybe they figure he’s just too unstable to put back in power so they want to wash their hands of him. It seems to me that nothing gets out of the Kremlin without Putin’s approval so if this seems more like a planted story than a leak. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/34 "2021-07-16T01:26:48Z")
The Guardian says “western intelligence agencies have known about – and have been examining – the documents for some time”. So I’m guessing it was leaked from one of those agencies. They say they have spent months verifying the legitimacy of the papers, and that independent experts have confirmed that they appear authentic. It’s possible this is some sort of planted story, but I doubt it’s the Guardian that’s being played. I can’t imagine they would publish this unless it came from a reliable source who would reasonably be expected to have access to it. If it’s fake, it’s probably fooled the western intelligence agencies, not just the Guardian. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/35 "2021-07-16T02:34:34Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > Oh, apologies. I didn’t mean to imply that the _kompromat_ didn’t exist; I just found it curious that the document teases an admission of what they have, but that list is conveniently missing from that same document. The appendix sounds like it deals with sources and methods which is why it would not be leaked. Some sources and methods might still be active or might be ones they want to use again. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/36 "2022-08-20T20:22:04Z")
Figured I’d zombie this, concerning unresolved issues into Mueller’s probe… > **[Appeals court backs ruling to release DOJ memo on Trump prosecution](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/19/appeals-court-backs-ruling-to-release-doj-memo-on-trump-prosecution-00052880)** > > The court's decision found that DOJ botched its handling of an FOIA suit from a liberal watchdog group that sought the memo. > [@](#): > > The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals said the Justice Department failed to meet its legal burden to show that the memo from the department’s Office of Legal Counsel was part of a genuine deliberative process advising then-Attorney General William Barr on how to handle sensitive issues left unresolved when Mueller’s probe concluded in March 2019. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/37 "2022-08-20T20:37:09Z")
Can somebody explain this to me? Is this a Good Thing or a Bad Thing? Will it send Barr to prison or not even blip his radar? Or is it really just a nothingburger? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/38 "2022-08-20T20:42:39Z")
My guess is that it will help explain whether the DOJ thought there were grounds to charge Trump if he were merely Citoyen Trump. But that’s just my guess. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/39 "2022-08-20T20:47:34Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Can somebody explain this to me? Is this a Good Thing or a Bad Thing? Will it send Barr to prison or not even blip his radar? Or is it really just a nothingburger? I thought this summed it up well: > [@](#): > > However, some Trump opponents have called on the Attorney General Merrick Garland to reconsider the issue now that Trump is no longer president. Release of the long-sought DOJ memo could fuel those calls and draw more unwanted attention to Trump’s potential criminal liability at a time when he is besieged by a slew of other legal woes relating to his handling of classified government records, his role in inspiring many of those involved in the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol and his broader efforts to overturn Joe Biden’s win in the 2020 presidential election. Not that I’m saying that this’ll be the “Al Capone tax thing” that’ll bring Don down, but shouldn’t this be further looked into, at the very least? Careful ramping up his criminal liability is a good thing, and _possibly_ further help lead to convictions. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549/40 "2022-08-22T23:31:16Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Can somebody explain this to me? Is this a Good Thing or a Bad Thing? Will it send Barr to prison or not even blip his radar? Or is it really just a nothingburger? Hard to say without seeing it. The judges have basically said that the document discusses how to handle the communication with Congress and the public about the matter. My assumption is that means that the OLC opinion is on how much the AG is allowed to spin and lie to the other branches of government and to the public. It will be interesting but probably more in the sense of understanding how the government works and what sort of creepiness they allow themselves, than in telling us anything about Trump or even Barr (since it’s an OLC memo, not a Barr memo). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-thread-for-the-mueller-investigation-results-and-outcomes-part-2/946549.md?page=3)