# A tie?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989 "2010-06-13T05:02:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/61 "2010-06-14T21:26:42Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Not this stupid fucking football argument again. Why do morons have to derail threads with dumb horseshit? Because some of the yanks around here seem to insist on it and then it is the rules that we have to bring up rugby to wind them up. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/62 "2010-06-14T23:21:22Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Really? It seems once you don armour, you’re inviting more violent challenges. Certainly anybody who leads with the head at rugby is a bit of a moron who is inviting a broken neck. That sports science show basically found that this is exactly what happens. The sheer violence of the impacts in american football is frightening, and wearing all that protection just encourages it. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/63 "2010-06-15T00:58:06Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Why would Pele even want to push a bull sled? Couldn’t he just hire a bull to pull it? Your knowledge of American football is on par with your knowledge of fitness. I’m not surprised you don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/64 "2010-06-15T14:36:06Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Imagine being hit by someone 6’5", weighing 275 lbs, and just a 10th of a second off world-class sprinter speed. Of course, imagining it is all you can do, because no such people exist in the NFL. The only players in the league who could possibly run a sub 10-second 100 meters are corners, wide receivers and tailbacks, and there certainly aren’t any such players in the league under 230 pounds. Hell, the fastest linebackers in the league are lucky to break 4.5 second 40s, and very few of them clock in at 270+ pounds - and certainly none with that sort of speed. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/65 "2010-06-15T14:40:55Z")
Would you guys please keep it down!? I’m trying to watch poker. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/66 "2010-06-15T14:51:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The only players in the league who could possibly run a sub 10-second 100 meters are corners, wide receivers and tailbacks, and there certainly aren’t any such players in the league under 230 pounds. That should say \*\*over 230 pounds. :smack: \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Scougs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scougs/32/3158_2.png) [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/67 "2010-06-15T16:26:39Z")
I’ve been reading both this thread (and others about the World Cup), and just want to chuck in my response to the bafflement about how a game can end it in a “tie”, and why don’t they do something to ensure that it doesn’t. Let me explain why. Football (I’m in Scotland, I’m going to call it football) is played in leagues, and in knock-out competitions. The World Cup is a hybrid: the first stage is in leagues (the “group stage”), then progresses to knock-out. Those of us that live with football day in, day out, are commonly used to seeing league games. I could give you countless examples\*, but I’ll take you back to a Scottish Premier match back in 1998. For once, the domination of Rangers and Celtic is being threatened, and a three-horse race is underway with my team - Hearts - up there as well. One Sunday, we are at home to Celtic. Going into the match, Rangers are on 49 points, and Celtic and Hearts are both on 48. Celtic score in the 40th minute, and Hearts spend the next 50 hanging on for grim death. Then, an age into stoppage time, Hearts player Jose Quitongo finds the ball at his feet, makes the unlikeliest of shots at goal, it takes a wee bobble and a deflection, and hits the back of the net. The resulting celebration in the stands at Tynecastle is one I will always remember, and it usually features when people are asked about their favourite goals. It finished 1-1. So the league now stands at 49 points for Rangers, Celtic and Hearts, with only goal difference separating them. Hugely exciting for Scottish football. In a league competition, there is really no need to have games always played out to a win. It would be a total change in the approach to the match. I guess we’re just used to seeing league football where draws can be hugely signifcant, and that’s why I just don’t get the bafflement on the boards that amounts to “A tie? Huh? How’s that allowed to happen?”. \*The other example I was tempted to give was the time that Hibs went 3-2 up against Hearts in the final minute of normal time, went 4-2 up in stoppage time, and still managed to only draw 4-4. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/68 "2010-06-15T17:47:14Z")
> [@Scougs](#): > > I could give you countless examples\*, but I’ll take you back to a Scottish Premier match back in 1998. For once, the domination of Rangers and Celtic is being threatened, and a three-horse race is underway with my team - Hearts - up there as well. One Sunday, we are at home to Celtic. Going into the match, Rangers are on 49 points, and Celtic and Hearts are both on 48. Nitpick: that was a First Division match. The divisions weren’t realigned until the following season - and Hearts finished third that season anyway, as I recall. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/69 "2010-06-15T18:17:52Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I think we’re not really communicating here. No one is arguing that ARF or Rugby isn’t a hard sport full of collision and tough, large men playing well. But what’s not being properly conveyed here is that American Football is a blood sport. Does either ARF or Rugby routinely lead to serious brain injuries? Witness [Mike Webster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Webster#Post-football_life) of the Pittsburgh Steelers: > [@](#): > > Webster was proven to have been disabled before retiring from the NFL. After retirement Webster suffered from amnesia, dementia, depression, and acute bone and muscle pain. > [@](#): > > After death, Mike Webster was diagnosed with chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a neurodegenerative disease. It has been speculated that Webster’s ailments were due to wear and tear sustained over his playing career; some doctors estimated he had been in the equivalent of “25,000 automobile crashes” in over 25 years of playing football at the high school, college and professional levels. Protective equipment (in particular helmets) was inferior during Webster’s time, and defensive players sometimes employed a “head slap” move that was then accepted, although illegal. “Iron Mike”, as he was known, was only fifty at the time of his death. And let’s not even get into hockey. (Not as many deaths, but holy shit, you want a violent sport? “I went to a fight…and a hockey game broke out.”) > [@5-HT](#): > > That sports science show basically found that this is exactly what happens. The sheer violence of the impacts in american football is frightening, and wearing all that protection just encourages it. It can also protect against non-violent injuries as well. I mentioned hockey above? Well, they addressed [url=[Clint Malarchuk - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Malarchuk#Throat_injury)]Clint Malarchuk\*\*'s near-fatal throat injury, and after that, neck guards were required for goalies. ---
**Author:** ![Scougs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scougs/32/3158_2.png) [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/70 "2010-06-15T18:21:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nitpick: that was a First Division match. The divisions weren’t realigned until the following season - and Hearts finished third that season anyway, as I recall. 😉 Hah - I’ll see your nitpick and raise it. That was the last season of the Premier Division of the Scottish Football League. It became The SPL the next season. Without Hibs. And I’m all too aware we finished third - one of the decisive matches being a draw against Motherwell, to go back to the point of the thread. We did win The Cup though, in a final which at one point did look like the dreaded extra time and penalties was a real possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/71 "2010-06-15T18:24:27Z")
[Fixed coding](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Malarchuk#Throat_injury) ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/72 "2010-06-15T19:38:45Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And let’s not even get into hockey. (Not as many deaths, but holy shit, you want a violent sport? “I went to a fight…and a hockey game broke out.”) That was my thought reading the thread. I love American football. Been watching nearly all my life, but for violence, I have to give it to hockey. Seeing people getting hit in the face with pucks and leaving the ice pouring blood to seeing a center come across the middle with his head down and getting knocked unconscious by a 225lb guy flying at you at 30mph and taking your head off. You’ll see stuff there that you won’t see in any other sport. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/73 "2010-06-15T20:35:30Z")
Why do you think most hockey players are missing teeth? (Ovechkin would make a jack-o-lantern jealous!) Oh, I looked on Wiki – (sorry, I just wanted something quick), apparently neckguards are NOT manditory for goalies, but most wear them. (Anyone who doesn’t is a complete dumbass, in my opinion) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/74 "2010-06-16T00:21:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Why do you think most hockey players are missing teeth? They aren’t bright enough to operate more than a couple at a time? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/75 "2010-06-17T00:16:07Z")
Imagine how the Spanish feel today. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/76 "2010-06-17T00:29:07Z")
Up until a few years ago, major league baseball games could be a tie. If a legal game (past 5 innings) was called for rain or whatever and was tied, it was a completed game. It did not go into the team’s standings in any way, and had to be made up if possible and/or necessary, but the player’s stats were official. The only difference from a game played to a decision was that there were no winning or losing pitchers. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/77 "2010-06-17T02:36:43Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > Right. We love _ **our** _ antiquated weights and measures. Not some English antiquated weights and measures. 🙂 > > Stone is not an American unit of measure. It more or less faded away when we redefined the hundredweight to be 100 lbs. rather than the English standard of 112 lbs. After that stone was no longer evenly divisible into the hundredweight. And it along with the quarter and clove fell into disuse. I doubt 1 in 100 Americans could tell you what the weight of a stone is. 14 pounds? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/78 "2010-06-17T11:26:14Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Yeah. How’s that any different from receiving a “hospital pass”, and getting completely flattened, though? In both cases, you’re talking about a guy getting smashed who couldn’t prepare himself. It’s different because rugby players aren’t allowed to block, greatly reducing the number of collisions. Notice how the original point was specifically about blocks, and your counter-example is about a tackle. That’s what makes it different, and was the entire point of that response, which you completely missed. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/79 "2010-06-17T11:37:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Of course, imagining it is all you can do, because no such people exist in the NFL. Or anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989/80 "2010-06-17T12:02:51Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > It’s different because rugby players aren’t allowed to block, greatly reducing the number of collisions. Football players don’t ruck, maul or scrummage properly, greatly reducing the number of collisions in American football. The worst hits in rugby are routinely when you’re on the ground under a contested ruck with players piling in on both sides, or driving forward in a maul. Furthermore, the game continues without stoppage: a rugby forward’s expected to hit, maul and ruck on one side of the pitch before immediately switching to the other side of the pitch, following the backs. There is no rest period to recover from a hit: it’s non-stop. > [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Notice how the original point was specifically about blocks, and your counter-example is about a tackle. That’s what makes it different, and was the entire point of that response, which you completely missed. Yes, it was about blocks. But the reason blocks were brought up was to discuss players being hit without having time to prepare themselves: > [@wolfman](#): > > Also the most bonecrunching hits are often a crack-back on a tackler by a blocker he never saw coming. Those you miss on TV usually because the camera is focused on the ballcarrier. The distinction between a block and tackle is irrelevant: getting hit without preparation happens routinely in both sports. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tie/542989.md?page=5)