# A Tip of the Hat - to Ringo Starr's drumming **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104 "2013-07-21T12:59:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/21 "2013-07-21T23:09:02Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I agree wholeheartedly. Ringo is such a tasteful, terrific musician. I love to listen to his drumming, what he plays (and what he doesn’t play). I have never understood the belittling of Ringo’s drumming either. To me it instantly shows the person doesn’t know what he’s talking about (or, at best, has a blind spot for some reason). > > Ringo is awesome. God forbid the Beatles had a “flashy for flash’s sake” type drummer, rather than a guy whose every beat served the tunes that made up their stunning body of work. Aye, “tasteful” and “terrific” are two words I would also use to describe Ringo’s drumming. In fact, I would have written this post, word for word, had you not already done it for me, **Stratocaster**. (Thanks, btw!) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/22 "2013-07-21T23:28:50Z")
You’re welcome! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/23 "2013-07-21T23:53:39Z")
A lot of people have dismissed Starr as supposedly a guy who got lucky - somebody who just happened to join a great band right before it became legendary. But I think the circumstances of his joining the band point to the exact opposite conclusion. Starr wasn’t some kid from down the street who had joined the Beatles in 1960 when they were just starting out and needed an available drummer. In 1962, when Starr joined, the other members had already established themselves as a rising band and as part of their development, they went out and recruited Starr to join them. They saw Starr as a drummer of the caliber they needed to go to the next level. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/24 "2013-07-22T00:00:57Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Shouldn’t this thread be named “A Tap of the High Hat - to Ringo Starr’s drumming”? Why, yes. Yes it should. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/25 "2013-07-22T00:41:59Z")
Ringo certainly got lucky – but only because he had the talent. John, Paul, and George wanted the best drummer they could find, and Ringo was considered the best drummer in Liverpool. But the group very nearly kept Pete Best – Brian Epstein didn’t want him to go – and, of course, if there were a better drummer than Ringo in Liverpool, the job would have gone to him. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/26 "2013-07-22T03:19:19Z")
I believe besides both bands being on the Liverpool circuit, they were both in Hamburg during the Beatles first run there and became pretty friendly with Ringo there. And when I read the Hunter Davies book many years ago I got the idea that Best was just a local guy they knew with a drum set who was willing and available to go to Hamburg with them. Lennon once said the Beatles were like a play and Ringo was a leading character who just didn’t make his entrance until the beginning of the second act. And yes, Clapton was reluctant to perform on “While My Guitar”. Once he was in the studio and was welcomed by the guys, I suspect they didn’t have to twist his arm very hard to get him to help out with “Yer Blues”. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/27 "2013-07-22T10:53:05Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > And yes, Clapton was reluctant to perform on “While My Guitar”. Yes, but not out of any sense of “I’m too busy,” or “It’s a bother, I’d rather do my own thing.” I’m paraphrasing, but Clapton’s reaction to George’s request was something like, “But nobody plays guitar on Beatles’ records but the Beatles!” IOW, the guitar god Clapton felt it would have been presumptuous of him! ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/28 "2013-07-22T11:49:04Z")
I agree with **Stratocaster** that belittling Ringo’s drumming is a like wearing a sign that says “I don’t know what I’m talking about.” And about Lennon’s comment that Ringo wasn’t the best drummer in The Beatles: Paul would probably be a better drummer than Ringo in a cover band, but I can’t imagine him doing anywhere near as well as Ringo in The Beatles. Ringo was the perfect guy for that spot. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/29 "2013-07-22T13:52:58Z")
I thought Lennon never actually said that. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/30 "2013-07-22T13:55:43Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I thought Lennon never actually said that. I think you are correct - it has been discussed here before. But that line, even if apocryphal, is still a meme about Ringo that gets tossed around… ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/31 "2013-07-23T21:45:33Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I went through the same process as a bassist. I was inspired to take up the bass when I heard Geddy Lee. Then I got into Steve Harris, and Joey DeMaio (Manowar). I just loved busy, complicated bass lines. But the thing is, while I love playing along with those guys’ records, the kinds music I actually play in public simply don’t call for that kind of bass playing. And it took me way too long to figure that out, but I eventually did. Comes with age, I guess 😃 > > I just read an interview with Ringo, and he pointed out that he was more popular in Liverpool than the Beatles were before they hit it big. He was the drummer for Rory and the Hurricanes, which was the biggest, most popular band in Liverpool at the time. When it turned out that Pete Best wasn’t going to cut it, the Beatles came to Ringo because _he was the best drummer in town_. Another bassist checking in to agree that Ringo’s got the goods. I won’t say that three bass players’ approbation trumps all commentary, but I’m thinkin’ most of the ‘ringo-dislikers’ are not quite as aware of his talents as they could/should be. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/32 "2013-07-23T21:49:56Z")
> [@Philliam](#): > > Another bassist checking in to agree that Ringo’s got the goods. I won’t say that three bass players’ approbation trumps all commentary, but I’m thinkin’ most of the ‘ringo-dislikers’ are not quite as aware of his talents as they could/should be. Let’s face it, most “Ringo-dislikers” are guitarists. Buncha show-offy wankers, the lot of 'em… (kidding, kidding!) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/33 "2013-07-23T21:56:15Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > Let’s face it, most “Ringo-dislikers” are guitarists. Buncha show-offy wankers, the lot of 'em… > > (kidding, kidding!) Well, I play guitar and started this thread 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/34 "2013-07-23T22:29:36Z")
I drove the kids to Grandma’s house yesterday, and heard a 1 1/2 hour Beatles fest. I was particularly noticing how Ringo moved smoothly between three different grooves on ‘We Can Work It Out’. No question, he was the man for the job, all the way. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/35 "2013-07-24T01:18:45Z")
The “in the groove” thing–is it anything like this uneducated listener’s, “Listen to him! The man is a fucking metronome,” reaction? He’s not off the beat by a millisecond. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/36 "2013-07-24T03:34:48Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The “in the groove” thing–is it anything like this uneducated listener’s, “Listen to him! The man is a fucking metronome,” reaction? He’s not off the beat by a millisecond. Ugh, how to explain groove? It’s not being a metronome. It’s making the song _go_. That’s the best I can do 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/37 "2013-07-24T03:36:59Z")
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groove_(music)): > [@](#): > > Like the term “swing”, which is used to describe a cohesive rhythmic “feel” in a jazz context, the concept of “groove” can be hard to define. Indeed, some dictionaries use the terms as synonyms: “Groovy…[d]enotes music that really swings.”[2][not in citation given] Marc Sabatella’s article Establishing The Groove argues that “groove is a completely subjective thing.” He claims that “one person may think a given drummer has a great feel, while another person may think the same drummer sounds too stiff, and another may think he is too loose.”[3] Similarly, a bass educator states that while “groove is an elusive thing” it can be defined as “what makes the music breathe” and the “sense of motion in the context of a song.”[4] ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/38 "2013-07-24T04:23:50Z")
A few hours behind the fake “kit” with Beatles Rock Band should convince any hater. It’s not perfectly analogous to real drumming, of course, but it gives you a great feel for how those drum parts come together and how much they’re not just plugging along and keeping a beat. It says a lot for Ringo that I, a musician but not a drummer at all, can recognize his style. I can say that about all kinds of guitarists, piano players, even bass players, but I doubt there are half a dozen other drummers who I would recognize if they sat in on someone else’s track. (Moon, Bonzo, Peart, maybe Stewart Copeland…I’m sure there are others, but they don’t come immedately to mind.) ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/39 "2013-07-24T07:44:57Z")
> [@Philliam](#): > > Another bassist checking in to agree that Ringo’s got the goods. I won’t say that three bass players’ approbation trumps all commentary, but I’m thinkin’ most of the ‘ringo-dislikers’ are not quite as aware of his talents as they could/should be. Ok, would four bass players’ accolades trump all commentary? Because I’ve always been bewildered by people who ragged on his drumming. Some drummers are amazing to listen to, some are easy to play with, some are both. Ringo has always struck me as a drummer who was probably both. He always conducts the band well. You usually know from his drumming when a change is imminent with usually an accent or an extra beat, and you always know where the damn beat is. That’s a drummer’s job, IMHO. If they aren’t doing that, who cares how awesome their fills were? As is noted above by others, when he does do a fill, it’s integral to the song and improves it. Even if I’m covering “Don’t Pass Me By” all alone with slide on an acoustic, I approximate his fills with guitar scratches. It’s not the same song without them. If conducting and contributing to the songwriting of the biggest band in the world at the time wasn’t enough, the drum sounds that the Beatles had were innovative too. I’m not certain how much to credit who out of the Fab Four + Martin for their drum sounds, but from the bashy distorted drums off of Revolver to the pudding drums from Abbey Road, he played some of the coolest drum sounds ever. Seriously [just perfect](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBrMnQmg9s). ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/40 "2013-07-24T08:19:48Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Ok, would four bass players’ accolades trump all commentary? Because I’ve always been bewildered by people who ragged on his drumming. I learned to play guitar by playing along with The Beatles. I’m a bass player now, and bass is my primary instrument, but when I perform live and solo I accompany myself on an acoustic guitar. I don’t consider myself a “good” guitarist; I know just enough to back up my vocals. But when I perform, everybody comes up afterwards and tells me what a great guitarist I am. It took me a long time to realize what they were hearing. What they were hearing was Ringo coming through my guitar. I was subconsciously emulating that groove that Ringo created, playing percussively while I strummed my chords. God I need to record some video of me singing Beatles songs… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104.md?page=3)