# A Tip of the Hat - to Ringo Starr's drumming **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104 "2013-07-21T12:59:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/81 "2013-07-25T22:15:27Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Aye, the toms is what drew me into his playing back when the Police were first making records. He’s a fucking tom-tom master. I know he was a huge influence on another drummer I love (and went to high school with), John Stanier (Helmet, Battles, etc.). For me it was his high-hat work; Walking on the Moon. He plays Chopin…on the high-hat; he is The Most Interesting Drummer in the World 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/82 "2013-07-25T22:48:36Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > For me it was his high-hat work; Walking on the Moon. He plays Chopin…on the high-hat; he is The Most Interesting Drummer in the World 😉 Yep, same here. I _love_ his hi-hat flourishes, plus his very tasty and judicious use of snare flams. But, like I said before, probably what jumps out to me most is the way he works his accents, usually on a cymbal of some sort. He loves accenting off beats and throwing crashes on something other than the one. Plus I love how he incorporates atypical (for rock) accent patters like the Jamaican “one drop” into that post punk style of music. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/83 "2013-07-25T23:05:01Z")
So we’re agreed then? Stewart Copeland can keep playing the drums? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/84 "2013-07-25T23:08:08Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > So we’re agreed then? Stewart Copeland can keep playing the drums? God, I hope so. Listening to “Driven To Tears” as we speak–my favorite Copeland track. (Plus I love the guitar solo in this one.) ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/85 "2013-07-26T03:54:27Z")
Ringo has a great feel that works perfectly with the Beatles. He doesn’t have great technical chops. If you think a “great” drummer must have both feel and chops, then he isn’t a “great” drummer. If you think great feel or great technique is enough by itself, then he is a great drummer. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/86 "2014-02-11T22:19:17Z")
> **[The Acoustic Guitar Forum](https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329090)** > > The Acoustic Guitar Forum - A forum for acoustic guitar enthusiasts. So I was over at the Acoustic Guitar Forum - I know that sounds shocking for me 😉 Sure enough, with all the Beatles stuff going on, someone started a “what did Ringo bring to the Beatles?” thread. Sigh… I cut and pasted my OP from this thread into that thread. Let’s see what happens… ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/87 "2014-02-11T22:26:15Z")
Weirdly enough, I was just rereading this thread today, too, after doing a search for your username and “Ringo.” Your example of “She Said She Said” has become my goto argument for Ringo’s drumming, but I couldn’t remember what your “simplistic” example was. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/88 "2014-02-11T22:30:29Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Weirdly enough, I was just rereading this thread today, too, after doing a search for your username and “Ringo.” Your example of “She Said She Said” has become my goto argument for Ringo’s drumming, but I couldn’t remember what your “simplistic” example was. Hey - cool! Thanks for sharing that. And since Good Day Sunshine is right next to SSSS on Revolver, it can be easier to remember… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/89 "2014-02-12T03:58:11Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I suppose the most important thing to note: while those two drum parts are at opposite ends of the technique spectrum, both fit their songs perfectly. That, to me, speaks loudest. He may not have been rock-bombastic, but he played to the needs of the song. As a musician, and a musician in a band, that is all you can ask. > > So a tip of the hat on a Sunday morning, Ringo. I can’t quantify what makes a good drummer. I always thought highly of the drummer(s) who played with Hendrix. they seemed to give extreme nuance to any piece played. Compare this to Buddy Rich who I viscerally hated because it never appeared he was playing to the music in any way. So if I can’t quantify why I think a drummer is great I agree with you 1000 percent that great drummers play to the music. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/90 "2014-02-12T04:37:19Z")
I recently purchased the “Beatles for Sale” CD (I had never bothered to get it, having owned “Beatles '65” on cassette since I was nine)…anyway, I discovered the lovely little gem “What You’re Doing.” The first Beatles song to open with two full measures of solo drums. And the drum pattern is very similar to Charlie Watts’ one for the Stones’ “My Obsession,” recorded exactly two years later (from “Between the Buttons,” the other cassette I owned when I was nine.) Anyway, yet another example of the Stones imitating the Beatles. (Not meant as a put-down of Watts – as others have noted, a jazz-loving, great grooving drummer who fits his band perfectly, as Ringo did his.) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/91 "2014-02-12T04:51:49Z")
My favourite rock drummer is Keith Moon. I’m not a drummer, nor am I a musician, but Moon has these little filler riffs in between normal beats that just amaze me. He and Ringo did hang out together for a while, and I’d like to think they shared notes. Zak Starkey is a very good drummer for The Who. He sounds much more like Keith than Kenney Jones. I’m not sure what my point is: just thinking out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/92 "2014-02-12T05:51:36Z")
Rereading the thread, I spotted a couple things I neglected to comment upon the first time around: > [@Crotalus](#): > > And about Lennon’s comment that Ringo wasn’t the best drummer in The Beatles: Paul would probably be a better drummer than Ringo in a cover band, but I can’t imagine him doing anywhere near as well as Ringo in The Beatles. Ringo was the perfect guy for that spot. The thing about covers … There are _thousands_ of really good drummers (and guitarists, and bassists) out there. Just spend some time on YouTube, and you’ll find hundreds of videos of various amateur musicians presenting their covers of well-know artists. And many of them are very good covers. [I’ve watched any number of videos of drummers absolutely _nailing_ Neil Peart’s drum parts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ2wXoqAhI4) (seriously, watch that one - your jaw will drop and fall off). Hell, I consider myself a “competent” bassist, but not a virtuoso, and I can play most of Geddy Lee’s bass lines (and sing his vocal parts at the same time). But the difference between the people covering those songs (myself included) and the original artists is that the overwhelming majority of those "cover artists would never, in a million years, have come up with those parts on their own. And that’s the thing that separates “original artists” from “cover artists”. I’ve come up with plenty of my own bass lines; I’ve played bass at my church, with the same primary group of musicians, for about 18 years. I have never heard the original versions of 99.9% of the songs we play. Our worship leader (a piano player) picks the songs, and provides the rest of us with, at best, sheet music, but more commonly we get lyrics with the chords scrawled in above them. With that to work with, the synth player, the trumpet player, the drummer, and I listen to our leader sing and play the song on the piano, and we all independently create our own parts that fit with what our leader is playing. While I come up with bass lines that I feel “serve the song”, they don’t resemble in any way the kinds of things that Geddy Lee plays. Though that’s actually a lesson that took me way too long to learn. The first time I played bass with this particular worship leader, I was a 19-year-old dumbass who thought that “playing my best” meant “playing as many notes as possible”. I got “fired”. 11 years later, I got the opportunity to play again. I was 30, and had wised up considerably. At 30, my playing was still probably “busier” than it really needed to be, but 18 years of playing with this group of outstanding musicians has taught me that, “playing my best” sometimes means knowing when to not play at all. > [@DoctorJ](#): > > It says a lot for Ringo that I, a musician but not a drummer at all, can recognize his style. I can say that about all kinds of guitarists, piano players, even bass players, but I doubt there are half a dozen other drummers who I would recognize if they sat in on someone else’s track. (Moon, Bonzo, Peart, maybe Stewart Copeland…I’m sure there are others, but they don’t come immedately to mind.) I recognize Peart from the sound of his snare. So … crisp. The other drummer that I can immediately recognize is Alex Van Halen. I’m not even much of a Van Halen fan, and I’ve always thought it was kind of funny that it’s not the sound of the legendary Eddie Van Halen’s guitar that immediately tells me I’m hearing Van Halen. It’s Alex’s high-hat. For some reason — and I don’t know if this was a conscious decision or not on the part of whoever produces VH albums — but Alex’s high-hat is always front-and-center in the mix. And by the sound, he plays a very loose high-hat. As soon as I hear that on the radio, even if it’s a song I’ve never heard before, I immediately think, “Hey, Van Halen!” More than one person has mentioned “metronome” drummers. Trust me, “metronome” drummers aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. The drummer in the only “working” band I’ve ever played in was one of these. He was a fine drummer who especially loved jazz, but could also play rock. And he _was_ a rock when it came to keeping time. The problem was that he was often keeping the _wrong_ time. And as the bassist/lead singer in that band, let me tell you that it was incredibly painful and frustrating when we were performing Billy Idol’s “Rebel Yell” and the drummer set a pace that was quite a few Beats Per Minute slower than the song required. And refused, once he had locked into a tempo, to acknowledge both myself and our guitarist while we tried to subtly (so that the audience wouldn’t notice) indicate to him that, “This is too fucking slow!”. It sucked all of the energy out of the song. Likewise, Eric Clapton’s “Cocaine”. He got it into his head that the song was a ballad, and playing the song at the tempo he set made it sound like a dirge. ETA: Since several people mentioned The Beatles’ _Revolver_ album, I decided to fire up iTunes and play _Revolver_ while rereading the thread. Imagine my confusion while _Love You To_ was playing. There is a sound that occurs several times in that song that sounds almost exactly like the sound Facebook makes when somebody sends you a message. I kept looking around and thinking, “I don’t even have Facebook open in another tab! Why do I keep hearing that noise?” before finally realizing it was coming from that song. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/93 "2014-02-12T06:01:04Z")
And too late for ETA2: ETA2: I just purchased _Rubber Soul_ from the iTunes store. Holy crap, Ringo’s drumming on _You Won’t See Me_! ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/94 "2014-02-12T06:25:37Z")
ETA3: Man, I’d forgotten that _Rubber Soul_ was my favorite Beatles album. Maybe because the album is so acoustic, and I only had an acoustic guitar when I first played along with it. My parents seemed to think that an electric guitar was just a toy, and considering that I was 14 and they had the money, I kind of had to go along with that at the time. (_What Goes On_ is playing now - Ringo is singing lead, and his kick drum is playing a remarkably complicated rhythm at the same time). This thread was resurrected at an appropriate time for me. I was born in 1966. In 1966, my Auntie Cathy was 18 years old, and my Auntie Kae was 16. Unsurprisingly, as teenage girls in the 1960s they were both huge Beatles fans (and to my unending envy, they had the good fortune of seeing The Beatles live, _twice_ - once in Seattle, WA, and once in Portland, OR. At one of those concerts, they were involved in a stage rush at the end of the show, and my Aunt Kae picked up a guitar pick from the stage. When I was 15 or 16, she gave me that guitar pick and told me where it came from. I still have that pick, securely ensconced in a plastic container. It’s a Gibson-branded pick, a style still available today, and I have no way to prove where it came from, other than my aunt’s word. And of course there’s no way to know if one of the Beatles used it, given that rock concerts in those days involved something like 23 opening acts). I only just remembered in the last couple of weeks that I may have never picked up the guitar if not for my Aunt Kae. Apparently, she had fooled with learning to play guitar in 1968 or so, but gave it up. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/95 "2014-02-12T06:53:06Z")
Dammit, I meant to click “Preview Post”, not “Post Quick Reply”! So Aunt Kae (pronounced “Kay”, but with that odd Korean-looking spelling) had fooled with the guitar in 1968 and then quit, for whatever reason. She stuck that guitar in her bedroom closet. In 1980, when I was 14 years old, I found that guitar in that closet at my Grandma’s house. This was at a time when I was learning to play a variety of instruments. I’d started out on the clarinet in 5th grade, and then at the end of 7th grade I’d learned to play the saxophone at the request of my junior high school band director (he needed an alto sax player for the jazz band, because all of his alto players had moved on to high school, and there were no upcoming sax players, and I was the 1st-chair clarinet player. Transitioning from clarinet to sax is a piece of cake - even at 14 it only took me 2 days to learn my way around a saxophone). Then, during my 8th-grade year, I found an odd instrument in the school’s instrument room. I didn’t know what it was, though being a woodwind player already, I recognized it as a woodwind instrument. I asked my band teacher, “What is this?” He said, “That’s a bassoon.” I said, “Oh. Can I learn to play it?” And Mr. Ager’s eyes lit up and he said, “Oh yes!” (Even in 1980, the most basic bassoon still cost close to $3,000, so there weren’t a whole lot of bassoon players feeding into junior high school band programs. There’s a good reason why junior high and high school bands have so many flute, clarinet, and trumpet players: You can buy student versions of those instruments for around $200. So in 1980, I was learning lots of instruments (I even taught myself the basics of trumpet and trombone.) Guitar was just another instrument on the list - it was something new to my wide-eyed young self. Once I was out of school in 1984 , and discovered that there wasn’t a lot of demand for clarinet/sax/bassoon players, the guitar became my primary instrument, and eventually I gravitated toward the bass guitar (which has now been my primary instrument for 29 years). And I probably wouldn’t be here now, as a bassist, if I hadn’t found my Aunt Kae’s old guitar. My aunt Kae, my dad’s baby sister, passed away last Wednesday, at the age of 63. She developed cancer in her spine and neck (meaning almost completely inoperable) and didn’t respond to chemo. I hadn’t seen her in many years, but her passing reminded me that I wouldn’t be the musician I am today without her. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/96 "2014-02-12T10:16:48Z")
Mister Rik, cool stories. I’m sure you’re aware that George got upset when Paul insisted on laying a very busy, melodic bass line over much of his (George’s) song “Something.” (George was right, although it is nice to have Paul’s interesting “solo” right after the first line of the last verse, during what otherwise would be kind of dead space. Just in the last verse – doing the same sort of thing in previous verses would have been too much.) P.S. Is the “Facebook sound” you hear in Love You To the larger of the two tablas, being played with the palm sort of making a circle on the drum head, giving it that upward-inflected “whoop” sound? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/97 "2014-02-12T10:27:22Z")
Thanks to those posting in this thread who have mentioned specific songs highlighting Ringo’s drumming. I’ve never made a point of listening carefully to the drumming but it’s quite enlightening doing so now when I know what to look for. Apropos of this there was something I was wondering about: > [@WordMan](#): > > I was listening to two consective tracks that couldn’t speak to this any better: **She Said She Said** and **Good Day Sunshine**. I’ll try to add links here, but I am on an iPad so they will be Mobile. > > - Starting with the latter: man, what deeply simplistic drumming. This single song might represent everything Ringo-haters want to point to. There is nothing that Ringo does here that a first-year couldn’t do - oom-pa beats, a gentle approach, no fills. If you listen a little more critically, you realize that he is “in the pocket” fully (i.e., establishes a great groove with his little oom-pa beat), and you might also note that the drum part is really what the song calls for, but I can see why folks might point to that performance with a “See? Told you!” type of look on their face. I had a listen to **Good Day Sunshine** just now and noticed that there are quite clearly _two_ full drum tracks which must have been recorded independently. (One in the left, the other in the right.) Was this typical? I know it wasn’t unusual for the Beatles to overdub simple percussion bits like hand claps or tambourines, but both percussion tracks on Good Day Sunshine are complicated enough to require someone at a drum kit playing with both hands (and feet for at least one of the tracks). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/98 "2014-02-12T10:38:32Z")
Are you sure it’s not artificial double tracking (ADT), with stereo effect? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/99 "2014-02-12T10:42:43Z")
Never mind –[you’re absolutely right](http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/gds.shtml). (skip to “Arrangement”). ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/100 "2014-02-12T10:59:44Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Never mind –[you’re absolutely right](http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/gds.shtml). (skip to “Arrangement”). I don’t need an analysis by Alan Pollock to confirm that I’m hearing a completely different percussion track in each ear. 🙂 Anyway, I don’t think the Beatles ever used ADT on anything other than vocals, did they? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104.md?page=6)