# A Tip of the Hat - to Ringo Starr's drumming **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104 "2013-07-21T12:59:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/101 "2014-02-12T15:57:47Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I don’t need an analysis by Alan Pollock to confirm that I’m hearing a completely different percussion track in each ear. 🙂 Well - _I_ did, he says sheepishly. I will have to listen with headphones and my full attention. The two tracks may help explain why I feel like such a simple oom-pa beat grooves so well. The thread over on the AGF has gone on for a few pages. A lot more Ringo supporters have chimed in, with diversions on random topics like the derivation of the term Pom, Cockney rhyming slang…it’s a full-blown kerfuffle, I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/102 "2014-02-12T21:26:29Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I don’t need an analysis by Alan Pollock to confirm that I’m hearing a completely different percussion track in each ear. 🙂 Anyway, I don’t think the Beatles ever used ADT on anything other than vocals, did they? You and WordMan are both right on, IMHO…I would have never noticed it if you (or Alan Pollack) hadn’t pointed it out to me, but when I hear it with headphones now, it’s unmistakable – I did indeed “confirm” it after reading your post without Mr. Pollack’s help. But I always love a chance to turn people on to Pollack’s website! My wife calls the weekend I discovered it “the lost days of summer.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/103 "2014-02-12T21:47:36Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > In another band, in a totally different context - Robert Fripp insisted that Bill Bruford should get a composition credit for his work on the piece ‘Trio’ from the album ‘Starless and Bible Black’. Bruford didn’t play a single note on the piece, but Fripp was impressed that the drummer knew when to sit out. As I recall, for “Trio,” the liner notes to the \*\*\*Starless and Bible Black \*\*\*album said something like: David Cross: Violin Robert Fripp: Mellotron John Wetton: Bass William Bruford: Admirable Restraint ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/104 "2014-02-16T22:30:51Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > If **Mister Rik’s** posts haven’t helped, you might start a thread. I like the explanation offered in one of his quotes: a groove is a “sense of motion in the context of a song.” > > The drummer, bassist and other rhythm parts establish the groove - sure, it is the rhythm, but there are two other factors that speak to teamwork: a) are the rhythm players working together effectively?; and b) are the melody players “accepting” that groove and working within it? It’s ultimately about teamwork - do the musicians sound like they are working together, regardless of the metronome speed. > > So - if the drummer is playing “boom, splat, boom-boom splat” (those are kick and snare drum sounds, by the way ;)), and the bassist is playing “note, note, note, note” - i.e., straight-up quarter notes - they could be playing at the same _metronome_ speed, but they wouldn’t sound sync’d up. They aren’t playing the same groove. > > Hope that helps - if not, again, perhaps a different thread would be in order. I know we’ve discussed groove in threads before, but can’t recall if it has had its own thread… I’ve been studying vocal technique recently, and re-listening to some Sinatra, and it strikes me that there are a lot of parallels between Sinatra (and his critics) and Ringo (and his critics). A lot of casual listeners don’t see what was ‘all that’ about Sinatra’s singing - as background music, he’s just another crooner. But if you really listen, you hear what made him great - it wasn’t great range or technical virtuosity in the sense that a great opera singer might have - it’s partly that his singing was always in the ‘pocket’. But there’s more than one kind of ‘pocket’, and it doesn’t have to be just rhythmic - it can be tonal, volume, percussive, or any other mode of musical expression. The way I was told to think about it: Imagine a ‘circle of correctness’ around the thing you’re trying to do - the timing you’re trying to maintain, the pitch you’re trying to hit, etc. Perfect pitch and perfect timing is right at the center of the circle, but so long as you’re actually in the circle, it will sound ‘right’. i.e. you can sing a little flat or sharp, but as long as the note is still in the circle it won’t be identified by the listener as ‘wrong’. Some singers constantly sing a little flat or sharp and it works for them so long as they stay in that circle. Anyway, If you’re always right in the center, it can sound lifeless, even if it’s ‘perfect’. A drum machine will nail the center of the timing window every time. A MIDI file can play a melody with the pitch dead center on each note - and sound equally lifeless. When you’re starting out learning to play music or sing, the main thing you’re trying to do is find the center of pitch or center of timing and learn how to hit it. But great musicianship and that elusive ‘pocket’ is all about knowing where and when to move away from the center to improve the overall effect on the song. If you listen carefully to Sinatra, you can hear him sing flat and sharp sometimes - but never outside that circle, and always in a way that adds something to the song. It adds dramatic tension, or lifts the melody a bit, or whatever. His phrasing is the same way - he drags or leads his phrases sometimes, but always in a way that moves the song forward and adds something to it. Sinatra sings that way because he studied the way the musicians played in the big bands he played in - especially Tommy Dorsey’s trombone style. He used that to build up a richer singing style at a time when most other singers were taught to sing in the center of pitch and with precise phrasing. He was also a great fan of Billie Holiday, who sang with great emotion and had a similar ‘loose’ style that she could let out or pull in to serve the song. Miles Davis plays trumpet the same way. A couple of years ago I read “This is Your Brain on Music”, and the author pointed out that one of the things that makes a good song satisfying is the build-up and release of musical tension. If you play a certain chord, the audience expects it to be followed by a chord that fills the mental expectation they’ve built around the first one - when they hear it, it’s very satisfying. Or sometimes the tension is left unresolved intentionally in one phrase, and then completed in another. It occurs to me that this might be a good way to think about the ‘pocket’ - it’s constantly satisfying because the beats happen right when the rhythmic tension is highest in the listener’s mind, and the tension is instantly resolved. Then the tension builds, and is resolved again. If it’s too mechanistic, there’s no tension. It’s just ‘boom-chicka-boom’. But if the beat leans forward or back a bit, it builds tension. Then if the next beat is perfectly placed, it resolves it. The tension may not come from the drummer - it might come from a vocal that slightly lags, which creates tension, and a perfectly placed drum beat resolves it. Reggae is very explicit in this way, to my ear. Looking for examples of Beatles songs where you might hear what I’m talking about… When the Beatles sing “Love, love me do”, the ‘do’ is almost stacatto, and seems to end the phrase slightly early, while Ringo’s laid-back drum stretches it back out. The first part of the phrase sometimes is a little elongated past the beat, but Ringo placed a double kick drum right in the middle and right on the beat while holds it all together. And that same double kick lands right at the end of the stanza - a very satisfying resolution. You can hear that tension in the drum beat on "Ticket to Ride’: the first part of the phrase seems to lag the beat slightly, then the last two beats come in and pull the whole phrase back into the pocket. It’s like a constant ‘tension-release’ thing going on through the whole song, and the rest of the song sits on top of it. Very cool. Ringo may not have the virtuosity of Neil Peart. And there were plenty of singers with greater range and technical virtuosity than Sinatra. Perhaps that’s why both of them tend to be under-rated by casual listeners. But Ringo and Frank were absolute masters when it came to knowing how to use their instruments to serve the music. As an aside, I think this gets to what I dislike about so many modern singers - they’ve all been trained to do crazy jazz runs and hit high notes, but so many of them don’t have the foggiest notion of how to employ their voices to serve the song. You see that in American Idol contestants all the time. They sing twenty notes where one would do, and can go to crazy places with their voices, but in the end it’s all forgettable. Sinatra could sing one simple phrase in the middle of his range and make you shiver. Ringo played drums in a way that didn’t make you go, “Holy cow, how did he do that so fast???”, but there was always something immensely satisfying about just _listening_ to it. Even if you didn’t understand why. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/105 "2014-02-17T02:00:58Z")
Great post, Sam Stone. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/106 "2014-02-17T05:02:52Z")
Ringo was a fantastic drummer, but there’s also one thing he had that was almost as important - he didn’t have a huge ego. Sure, he was _able_ to do incredibly complex pieces, but he was perfectly happy to do simpler beats. Especially during the last few albums, having at least one guy in the band who wasn’t constantly trying to showcase themselves and their talents allowed them to stay together those final years. A musician who’s very talented? That’s valuable. A musician who doesn’t have a big ego? That’s good. A musician who’s both? Now _that’s_ rare. (Also, interesting Ringo factoid - as a child, he was frequently very sick, and he once got tuberculosis. In the hospital, the staff handed out simple musical instruments to keep them entertained, and he got the drumsticks. Almost every hour of every day for months was spent tapping the drumsticks on the cabinet next to his bed. :D) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/107 "2014-02-17T05:17:07Z")
A relevant youtube video: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISG5bCZe1c8&feature=youtu.be) It’s Ringo’s drumming on I Me Mine isolated. Really cool to listen to. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/108 "2014-02-17T05:22:18Z")
Ooh and one more: [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA_CTCYr4IE&feature=youtu.be) I gotta give a tip of the hat to the youtube commentator who said (in essence) anybody who thinks they are a better drummer than Ringo needs to play what he does at 1:07 and 2:12. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/109 "2014-02-17T13:57:27Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’ve been studying vocal technique recently, and re-listening to some Sinatra, and it strikes me that there are a lot of parallels between Sinatra (and his critics) and Ringo (and his critics). A lot of casual listeners don’t see what was ‘all that’ about Sinatra’s singing - as background music, he’s just another crooner. But if you really listen, you hear what made him great - it wasn’t great range or technical virtuosity in the sense that a great opera singer might have - it’s partly that his singing was always in the ‘pocket’. > > But there’s more than one kind of ‘pocket’, and it doesn’t have to be just rhythmic - it can be tonal, volume, percussive, or any other mode of musical expression. The way I was told to think about it: Imagine a ‘circle of correctness’ around the thing you’re trying to do - the timing you’re trying to maintain, the pitch you’re trying to hit, etc. Perfect pitch and perfect timing is right at the center of the circle, but so long as you’re actually in the circle, it will sound ‘right’. i.e. you can sing a little flat or sharp, but as long as the note is still in the circle it won’t be identified by the listener as ‘wrong’. Some singers constantly sing a little flat or sharp and it works for them so long as they stay in that circle. > > Anyway, If you’re always right in the center, it can sound lifeless, even if it’s ‘perfect’. A drum machine will nail the center of the timing window every time. A MIDI file can play a melody with the pitch dead center on each note - and sound equally lifeless. > > When you’re starting out learning to play music or sing, the main thing you’re trying to do is find the center of pitch or center of timing and learn how to hit it. But great musicianship and that elusive ‘pocket’ is all about knowing where and when to move away from the center to improve the overall effect on the song. If you listen carefully to Sinatra, you can hear him sing flat and sharp sometimes - but never outside that circle, and always in a way that adds something to the song. It adds dramatic tension, or lifts the melody a bit, or whatever. His phrasing is the same way - he drags or leads his phrases sometimes, but always in a way that moves the song forward and adds something to it. > > Sinatra sings that way because he studied the way the musicians played in the big bands he played in - especially Tommy Dorsey’s trombone style. He used that to build up a richer singing style at a time when most other singers were taught to sing in the center of pitch and with precise phrasing. He was also a great fan of Billie Holiday, who sang with great emotion and had a similar ‘loose’ style that she could let out or pull in to serve the song. Miles Davis plays trumpet the same way. > > A couple of years ago I read “This is Your Brain on Music”, and the author pointed out that one of the things that makes a good song satisfying is the build-up and release of musical tension. If you play a certain chord, the audience expects it to be followed by a chord that fills the mental expectation they’ve built around the first one - when they hear it, it’s very satisfying. Or sometimes the tension is left unresolved intentionally in one phrase, and then completed in another. > > It occurs to me that this might be a good way to think about the ‘pocket’ - it’s constantly satisfying because the beats happen right when the rhythmic tension is highest in the listener’s mind, and the tension is instantly resolved. Then the tension builds, and is resolved again. If it’s too mechanistic, there’s no tension. It’s just ‘boom-chicka-boom’. But if the beat leans forward or back a bit, it builds tension. Then if the next beat is perfectly placed, it resolves it. The tension may not come from the drummer - it might come from a vocal that slightly lags, which creates tension, and a perfectly placed drum beat resolves it. Reggae is very explicit in this way, to my ear. > > Looking for examples of Beatles songs where you might hear what I’m talking about… > > When the Beatles sing “Love, love me do”, the ‘do’ is almost stacatto, and seems to end the phrase slightly early, while Ringo’s laid-back drum stretches it back out. The first part of the phrase sometimes is a little elongated past the beat, but Ringo placed a double kick drum right in the middle and right on the beat while holds it all together. And that same double kick lands right at the end of the stanza - a very satisfying resolution. > > You can hear that tension in the drum beat on "Ticket to Ride’: the first part of the phrase seems to lag the beat slightly, then the last two beats come in and pull the whole phrase back into the pocket. It’s like a constant ‘tension-release’ thing going on through the whole song, and the rest of the song sits on top of it. Very cool. > > Ringo may not have the virtuosity of Neil Peart. And there were plenty of singers with greater range and technical virtuosity than Sinatra. Perhaps that’s why both of them tend to be under-rated by casual listeners. But Ringo and Frank were absolute masters when it came to knowing how to use their instruments to serve the music. > > As an aside, I think this gets to what I dislike about so many modern singers - they’ve all been trained to do crazy jazz runs and hit high notes, but so many of them don’t have the foggiest notion of how to employ their voices to serve the song. You see that in American Idol contestants all the time. They sing twenty notes where one would do, and can go to crazy places with their voices, but in the end it’s all forgettable. Sinatra could sing one simple phrase in the middle of his range and make you shiver. Ringo played drums in a way that didn’t make you go, “Holy cow, how did he do that so fast???”, but there was always something immensely satisfying about just _listening_ to it. Even if you didn’t understand why. Interesting - probably worth its own thread, in terms of discussing a groove or “the pocket” and what makes it work and why we like it. I will say that humans tend to like to hear the…humanity in the music. Keeping stuff in like imprecise fingerings, a string squeak, intakes of breath or conscious choices to come to a note slightly flat or sharp before hitting the actual note - all of that makes it clear that someone is trying to communicate, not just execute a musical formula. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/110 "2019-02-03T22:29:43Z")
I just wanted to add this data point, so when this discussion comes up again I can find it easily: [Chad Smith (Red Hot Chili Peppers) and Stewart Copeland (high hat god) analyze and praise Ringo Starr’s drumming](https://youtu.be/nVgak9w7g_0?t=1338). The segment is about 13 minutes long. I pretty much idolize Mr. Copeland’s drumming and I have a ton of respect for Mr. Smith’s body of work, so I thought this was pretty cool. If anyone is wondering: YES it is worth 1 hour to watch the entire program. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2019, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/111 "2019-02-04T06:25:22Z")
Not sure how I missed this > [@WordMan](#): > > Just as an aside: it’s fascinating how a thread about The Beatles can often be the start of a good thread conversation. I typed up on the OP as a way to relax and pontificate 😉 on a lazy Sunday - I knew a few Beatles geeks would sign on, but it’s lead to a variety of interesting side discussions. I just think that the Beatles are so…so…_central_ to conversations about music’s recent history that the threads attract a broader cut of Dopers… > > Cool. Cool +1. Central, indeed. Dare I say like a fulcrum point from which a lot of rock’n roll-based music stems (heh - if I got my geometric analogy right). How _can’t_ it be quite all-encompassing. His influence, outreach - can branch off in myriad directions. > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Imagine the Beatles with Ginger Baker or Keith Moon in Ringo’s place. Would that make the records better? I think not. Thank-you. I’ve said this to Ringo-dissers, with varying degrees of success. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > Listen to “Rain.” Ringo apparently holds his playing in this number in higher regard than any other Beatles number. I’m sure he had fun with some of those passages, which sound like a series of extended, shuffling fills. Still looking for the cite. (his claim) > [@WordMan](#): > > I guess another way to come at the Ringo discussion would be: who are other rock drummers who are known for a light touch? Nick Mason would be a good candidate, as would the fine Levon Helm. > [@WordMan](#): > > But then he stepped off the throne for a song and out comes **Anton Fig** , drummer for Shaffer/Letterman, and tons of studio work in NY, with Ace Frehley, etc. He sits down, picks up sticks and ka-BOOM with a kick and BOOMITY-BOOMITY-BOOMITY-BOOMITY-BOOM with a quick tom run. JEE-sus it was, like, _3 times louder_ than the weekend warrior - and so fucking crisp and tight - it blew everybody back. And Anton was NOT showing tons more force - he was just a fucking kungfu-master drummer, snapping his wrists to get maximum whip with efficiency. It was an education to witness. A lot of power and volume can be achieved with much economy on the snare by shading the rim with each hit, to give it a lot more cutting pop, which is something Bill Bruford really had to bring to the fore when dealing with Chris Squire’s thumping volume on bass. The more you shade, the more you end up breaking sticks, but, well… ::gallic shrug:: Speaking of Bruford, I see I was beaten to it at what I thought would be an incredibly obscure reference to his “admiral restraint” in “Trio”, which, (as an aside) has maybe the nicest bass lines I’ve ever heard John Wetton play. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Aye, the toms is what drew me into his playing back when the Police were first making records. He’s a fucking tom-tom master. I know he was a huge influence on another drummer I love (and went to high school with), John Stanier (Helmet, Battles, etc.). Heh and Mr. Copeland was also a huge influence on another awesome drummer who, well, maybe not in my same high school, but in my neighbourhood _while_ I was going to school in the early 80’s - John Wright of Nomeansno. The Gang of Four’s Hugo Burnham also did very unique tom-tom work to augment his interestingly time signatured beats. And also, with toms - getting back to Bruford again - his use of those crazy [octobons](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&biw=1022&bih=795&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=-shXXNnhIbvO0PEP5c2e6A4&q=octobons&oq=octobons&gs_l=img.3..0i10l4.784865.788174..788388...0.0..3.181.1608.15j4....3..2....1..gws-wiz-img.....0..0i8i30j35i39j0.DsW28jSZ5CI)during _Discipline_-era King Krimson was pretty cool, incorporating an octobon as part of the beat, like in [Elephant Talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MFb1Vv-RbY) and [Frame by Frame.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d46FV8rSbNE)\* > [@JKellyMap](#): > > Great post, Sam Stone. Thirded. (after **Word Man** ) > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …knowing where and when to move away from the center to improve the overall effect on the song. If you listen carefully to Sinatra, you can hear him sing flat and sharp sometimes - but never outside that circle, and always in a way that adds something to the song. It adds dramatic tension, or lifts the melody a bit, or whatever. His phrasing is the same way - he drags or leads his phrases sometimes, but always in a way that moves the song forward and adds something to it… > > If you play a certain chord, the audience expects it to be followed by a chord that fills the mental expectation they’ve built around the first one - when they hear it, it’s very satisfying. Or sometimes the tension is left unresolved intentionally in one phrase, and then completed in another. > > It occurs to me that this might be a good way to think about the ‘pocket’ - it’s constantly satisfying because the beats happen right when the rhythmic tension is highest in the listener’s mind, and the tension is instantly resolved. Then the tension builds, and is resolved again. Those are good insights into the concept of the pocket: that’s it’s possible to be in sync, in the groove, without being a metronomic automaton. (Chris Franz was one of the few who could get away with that almost robotic style, with the early, austere Talking Heads) Jim Gordon’s playing in “Rikki Don’t Lose That Number” is a fine example of playing in the pocket. And Ringo’s “Cry Baby Cry”, particularly during the verses. Ringo’s contemporaries respected him highly, he was part of that clan, and dissers weren’t part of it. Other spot-on Ringo numbers - “Please Please Me”, “Wait”, “Think For Yourself”. Just realised something: he must’ve been super bored with recording “Magical Mystery Tour” album (or bored with its results, anyway) - there isn’t a whole lot of drumming in the overall mix on that album, (with it being a “soundtrack” and whatnot). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/112 "2019-02-04T13:16:16Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Ringo apparently holds his playing in this number in higher regard than any other Beatles number. I’m sure he had fun with some of those passages, which sound like a series of extended, shuffling fills. Still looking for the cite. (his claim) Can’t find it online, but quoted in [All the Songs: The Story Behind Every Beatles Release](https://www.amazon.com/All-Songs-Behind-Beatles-Release/dp/1579129528/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1549285984&sr=1-1&keywords=all+the+songs): > [@](#): > > In a 1984 interview, Ringo stated, “My favorite piece of me is what I did on ‘Rain.’ I think I just played amazing. I was into the snare and hi-hat. I think it was the first time I used this trick of starting a break by hitting the hi-hat first instead of going directly to a drum off the hi-hat… I think it’s the best out of all the records I’ve ever made. ‘Rain’ blows me away. It’s out of left field. I know me and I know my playing, and then there’s ‘Rain.’” The footnote cites “Max Weinberg, _The Big Beat_ (Briarcliff, NY: Hudson Music, 1984).” ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/113 "2019-02-04T18:20:52Z")
Ah, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/114 "2019-02-12T20:35:50Z")
Suddenly hit me: Yer Blues The re-listen has now made it one of my Ringo faves. I believe it’s in 6/8 time, and Mr. Starr, here, just plain ol’ gets DOWN and duhrt-aaaay. Especially those galloping fills - love’em. Interesting find that I’m discovering only now - Dirty Mac - a little ad hoc collective with John Lennon, Jeff Beck, Mitch Mitchell, and Eric Clapton. I’d provide the youtube link, but doing shit on the phone while I wait for Thursday delivery of new comp really sucks, but anyway they do a cracking YB rendition, with Slowhand going an extra eight (awesome) bars in the solo. Heh - the vid also shows what could possibly be a quite passive-aggressively sarcastic ‘intro’ chat betwen John and Mick Jagger. Heh - Didn’t mean Mitch to just come in here and take the spotlight away from Ringo, or anything.:o ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/115 "2019-02-12T21:24:40Z")
The one song where I seriously question Ringo’s drumming is [“Free As A Bird”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODIvONHPqpk). The melody is not one of John’s best, but the verse is pleasantly ethereal. An interesting arrangement could really elevate the song, but instead the rhythm pattern is maybe Ringo’s simplest and most boring. I have no idea what the guys were thinking. Is there a story behind that arrangement? Does anyone think the drumming couldn’t be much, much better? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/116 "2019-02-13T00:44:08Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > The one song where I seriously question Ringo’s drumming is [“Free As A Bird”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODIvONHPqpk). > > The melody is not one of John’s best, but the verse is pleasantly ethereal. An interesting arrangement could really elevate the song, but instead the rhythm pattern is maybe Ringo’s simplest and most boring. I have no idea what the guys were thinking. Is there a story behind that arrangement? Does anyone think the drumming couldn’t be much, much better? I thought that beat served the purpose of the song fine - it definitely didn’t stand out, to me, as anything that required augmentation of any sort. Maybe in a metal tune, yeah - wouldn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/117 "2019-02-13T05:23:38Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Interesting find that I’m discovering only now - Dirty Mac - a little ad hoc collective with John Lennon, Jeff Beck, Mitch Mitchell, and Eric Clapton. Keith Richards, not Jeff Beck. I always liked this track, with Ringo holding his own with some major non-Beatles talent, although it’s unclear to me just how much of the drumming he is actually doing given there are other drummers present. Mr. Starr gives a fine comic performance in \*Candy\* (1968), brilliantly cast as a Mexican gardener...though he does no drumming. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/118 "2019-02-13T06:49:42Z")
It looked like all Ringo to me - every time I heard a fill, its sound corresponded exactly with each tom hit I was viewing. Near the end, the camera pans over, breifly, to what I’m positive is simply a reflection of Ringo. Other than that, the only other percussionist was some bongo player whom I’ll bet Bill Needle would’ve criticized for looking like a pimp. :smack: On my Beck/Richards mix-up. I was too fucked up when I saw Candy - all I remember was Marlon Brando doing the beatific guru thing in the back of a (I think) semi, and Richard Burton drowning in booze in some kind of container (?) that had a glass bottom so that he could be viewed, from underneath, as he looked down at us. I think he was enjoying the drowning. Oh and Ringo’s Mike Ricci hair was awesome in that. AND a fine stone groove he was laying down, too, showing that he’s always been able to sit down with ANY of the big boys. Enjoyable - thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/119 "2019-02-13T16:30:00Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > It looked like all Ringo to me - every time I heard a fill, its sound corresponded exactly with each tom hit I was viewing. Near the end, the camera pans over, breifly, to what I’m positive is simply a reflection of Ringo. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/evEbAbQ2sQk/hqdefault.jpg "T.Rex - Children Of The Revolution (with Elton John & Ringo Starr)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEbAbQ2sQk&t=166) That is not a reflection of Ringo drumming in the BG at 2:46. Also note that several things change over the course of the video, including the positions, clothes, number and instruments of the performers (i.e., it was not shot in the course of one take of the song), suggesting that sound/image correspondence is, let us say, not a decisive method for establishing who is actually playing what or when. I do not wish to cast aspersions on anyone; bottom line for me: it’s a great track. _Candy_ is a classic '60s flick; some awesome and/or hilarious bits strewn about an overlong and generally one-joke story. Mr. Brando is silly (“You can’t bring a frozen guru into California!”), but Mr. Burton (as the poet Mac Phisto) is beyond parody as he laps up spilled booze in the back of his glass bottom limo, chauffeured by Sugar Ray Robinson (“Kinda makes you stop and think, don’t it?”) Ringo is also very good in _The Magic Christian_, another Terry Southern-derived one-joke story littered with guest stars and great bits in between flat and/or overextended gags. I don’t recall him doing any drumming in that one either, though he does play some flute. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104/120 "2019-02-13T17:46:42Z")
Ah, indeed - there does appear to be another drummer - my bad. (Heh - another bad - I guess those are technically congas, not bongoes) However, as far as viewing and hearing is concerned, you should be able to easily observe the (quite basic) fills at 1:30 and 1:38 unquestionably syncing up with what Ringo’s playing. I have no idea how you could them otherwise.😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tip-of-the-hat-to-ringo-starrs-drumming/664104.md?page=7)