# A tipping point. Historians will write on this in 20 years **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 21, 2025, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210 "2025-01-21T13:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/101 "2025-01-24T12:27:56Z")
> [@Xocomil](#): > > In addition, the Greenland Ice Sheet covers about 80% of its land. Ah - but add in Trump’s wisdom in accelerating global warming… ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/102 "2025-01-24T22:51:12Z")
IIRC it’ll become a sea. The weight of the ice sheet has depressed the a big chunk of the land under it below sea level. Yes, there’ll be rebound (i.e. earthquakes) but sea levels will be higher, too. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/103 "2025-01-25T03:57:02Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Do you think that the US is worse than other countries by its nature? Because you can usually point to any country and find a history of imperialism, exploitation, etc. And generally since then they’ve been flattened in some war or revolution and rebuilt; the factions responsible for that are gone. The US hasn’t. We have a _250+ year unbroken history_ of having a usually- dominant faction that is all about hatred and bigotry. MAGA is the direct ideological and moral descendant of the slavers and the genocidal colonizers. As for Japan, Japan has a notorious problem with resurgent fascism and apologia for WWII atrocities, so they aren’t exactly a good counterexample. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/104 "2025-01-25T04:05:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > We have a _250+ year unbroken history_ of having a usually- dominant faction that is all about hatred and bigotry. Lincoln? Obama? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/105 "2025-01-25T04:09:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Lincoln? > > Obama? Lincoln fought a civil war against them, won the war but was then assassinated and the people after him lost the peace. And Obama sparked a massive upsurge in their power that has led to the probably permanent shift of the US into fascism. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/106 "2025-01-25T04:11:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Lincoln fought a civil war against them, won the war but was then assassinated and the people after him lost the peace. And Obama sparked a massive upsurge in their power that has led to the probably permanent shift of the US into fascism. So, not unbroken then? I am sure there are other examples. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/107 "2025-01-25T04:12:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, not unbroken then? No, unbroken. At no point were they destroyed as a movement, just marginalized on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/108 "2025-01-25T06:40:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As for Japan, Japan has a notorious problem with resurgent fascism and apologia for WWII atrocities, so they aren’t exactly a good counterexample. When I lived there, sometimes old dudes would make excuses for Japan’s behavior in the bad old days, but it’s rather rare to experience. Same thing with the US. Yeah, there is an unbroken history of _some_ white people, a lot fewer than there used to be but still far too many, being racist fuckheads. That sucks, and it’s an embarrassment, but I don’t think it corrupts the US to the core. Again, I don’t think of the US as being one thing anyway. Countries and borders and whatnot are useful fictions. Well, not always all that useful… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/109 "2025-01-25T11:27:48Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Yeah, there is an unbroken history of _some_ white people, a lot fewer than there used to be but still far too many, being racist fuckheads. There’s enough that they can take over the government, and that’s as many as there need to be. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/110 "2025-01-25T12:27:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And Obama sparked a massive upsurge in their power that has led to the probably permanent shift of the US into fascism. I think you’d be surprised at how many Obama voters voted for Trump. Bigotry is a part of MAGA. But I don’t think it’s the foundation. This is a working class revolt, and its happening around the world. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/111 "2025-01-25T13:27:14Z")
**A tipping point Historians will write about.** Depends on what’s available to get tipped. Lenin and Stalin brought Russia out of the dark ages. Hitler achieved 100% employment at the bottom of the depression. Mussolini made the trains run on time. Brigham Young created Utah, What can Trump do? What’s to tip? I believe in twenty years historians will treat Trump like they do Huey Long or William Walker. Just interesting aberrancies. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/112 "2025-01-25T17:35:45Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Yeah, there is an unbroken history of _some_ white people, a lot fewer than there used to be but still far too many, being racist fuckheads. That sucks, and it’s an embarrassment, but I don’t think it corrupts the US to the core. But it wasn’t just old, white, racist fuckheads that put Trump back in for his second term, there aren’t enough of them to do that. The rest were people selling their birthright for ~~a mess of pottage~~ cheaper eggs. ---
**Author:** ![TeroSunbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terosunbear/32/14748_2.png) [@TeroSunbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeroSunbear)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/113 "2025-01-25T17:44:11Z")
The tipping point is that finally corporations run our entire lives. They also buy the politicians. Social progarms are gone. No sick leave and corporations do not have babies so none of that either. More of that will take place with whoever owns the biggest chunk of AI. See Harari: > **[Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_Deus:_A_Brief_History_of_Tomorrow)** > > Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow (Hebrew: ההיסטוריה של המחר, English: The History of the Tomorrow) is a book written by Israeli author Yuval Noah Harari, professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. The book was first published in Hebrew in 2015 by Dvir publishing; the English-language version was published in September 2016 in the United Kingdom and in February 2017 in the United States. > As with its predecessor, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, Harari recounts the course of hu... We busy bee workers just do the simplest work that robots just don’t quite know how. One that requires arms and hands and fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/114 "2025-01-25T18:13:30Z")
> [@TeroSunbear](#): > > The tipping point is that finally corporations run our entire lives. They also buy the politicians. Social progarms are gone. No sick leave and corporations do not have babies so none of that either. > More of that will take place with whoever owns the biggest chunk of AI. See Harari: Erm, I read that book, it’s among my favorites, and it very much does not say any of the things you listed. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/115 "2025-01-25T20:01:57Z")
I think you’re right. MAGA is based (not “based” 😆) on this idea that they can do something big: drain the swamp, fight “wokeness,” that kinda shit. Neither Trump nor the GOP has any ideas about how to move the country forward. So yeah, I think you’re right: he can’t do anything substantial except make life in the US (and the world) more chaotic and unpleasant. (Which is not to say that we don’t need big change–we absolutely do.) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/116 "2025-01-25T20:05:41Z")
I basically agree with [OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds): this is a global phenomenon, not something particularly ill or decrepit in the US (I mean, it is, but not limited to here). It’s too bad that it’s an inchoate revolt without any vector other than fucking things up. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/117 "2025-01-25T20:16:23Z")
I was making an argument against what [Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs) was saying, but yes, the fuckheads in the US are by no means limited to the Pale Ones. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/118 "2025-01-25T23:43:22Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > I think you’d be surprised at how many Obama voters voted for Trump. I dont think many did. I think they stayed home or voted 3rd party instead. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/119 "2025-01-25T23:57:13Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > It’s too bad that it’s an inchoate revolt without any vector other than fucking things up. What’s the choate response? The problem is on the intellectual side, we’re at the End Of History and communism lost. There are ZERO other possible forms than what we have right now. So global economy and the rich get richer and prices usually stay low so long as you have a job I guess. And the intellectual left has no answer to that. No effective answer. It’s more complicated than that. But the above is effectively the result. The left can work economically on the margins at best, so they’ve focused more on social issues. At some point the lack of tribalism in The End Of History motif maybe does more harm than good, I don’t know. But I think the current reaction is INTENTIONALLY inchoate because a choate response would be shut down. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210/120 "2025-01-26T01:07:46Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Bigotry is a part of MAGA. But I don’t think it’s the foundation. Bigotry, malice, religious fanaticism, sadism. The desire to hurt as many other people as possible and damage the world as much as they can for the sheer joy of doing so. MAGA wants to burn the world because it can, no matter the cost to itself. The Right is just the Creed of Sauron; “cruelty, malice, and the will to dominate all life”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tipping-point-historians-will-write-on-this-in-20-years/1013210.md?page=7)