# A "tithe child" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 4, 2001, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422 "2001-10-04T18:45:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ariadne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71c47a/32.png) [@Ariadne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ariadne)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/1 "2001-10-04T18:45:04Z")
I was reading about Hildegarde of Bingen (1078-1179), and the article said that she was the tenth child of a noble family. It said that, in that time, the tenth child was usually give to the church as a tithe. I tried to find out more about this on Google, Hotbot and Dejanews, but all they had were more articles about Hildegarde. Does anyone know more about this custom? ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/2 "2001-10-04T22:06:04Z")
I don’t know anything about the tithe child thing, but it sort of makes sense. Historically, the church tithe is supposed to be 10% of your income. Giving your tenth child would be 10% of your children. IMO, most churches are nuts, so I can see them demanding a tenth of your children, no problem. The big surprise is that they took the last, not the first! ---
**Author:** ![Myst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/59ef9b/32.png) [@Myst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myst)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/3 "2001-10-04T22:21:49Z")
In biblical times it was customary to give your first born to God (i.e. work at the local temple). Not that strict a rule, you could pay a certain fee and avoid sending away your precious child. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/4 "2001-10-05T01:17:11Z")
I have never, ever, heard of the concept of a “tithe child.” Are we all sure that isn’t some made-up myth, like the “right of first night” that kings were supposed to have had (but that no medieval historian anywhere ever mentions)? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/5 "2001-10-05T01:49:38Z")
While many of Google’s hits repeat the legend, I found one which doesn’t parrot the standard line: > [@](#): > > A popular legend says that she was the tenth child and was dedicated to the Church as a “tithe” according to the custom of the day, however, her earliest biographer, a monk who had served as her secretary, wrote: “Her parents…although wealthy and engaged in worldly affairs, were not unmindful of the gifts of the Creator and dedicated their daughter to the service of God. For when she was yet a child she seemed far removed from worldly concerns, distanced by a precocious purity.” There is no record of her birth order or of the size of her family, but the first names of seven of her siblings are known. From [here](http://www.classicalhub.com/composers/hildegard.html) ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/6 "2001-10-05T04:54:34Z")
The idea that a tithe means one tenth of your income is not true, it does mean a part of your income but did not mean that amount in practice. It has been taken to mean that by some churches of a more recent origin but then some of these seem to have interesting versions of their own scriptures done up to attempt to resemble fifteenth and sixteenth century vernacular. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/7 "2001-10-05T05:12:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ariadne \* > \*\*I was reading about Hildegarde of Bingen (1078-1179), and the article said that she was the tenth child of a noble family. It said that, in that time, the tenth child was usually give to the church as a tithe. I tried to find out more about this on Google, Hotbot and Dejanews, but all they had were more articles about Hildegarde. Does anyone know more about this custom? \*\* Hardly the most interesting thing about this most interesting woman of the Middle Ages. She was one of the most fascinating people of all time, and her albums ROCK! ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/8 "2001-10-05T08:11:32Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by DPWhite \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Hardly the most interesting thing about this most interesting woman of the Middle Ages. She was one of the most fascinating people of all time, and her albums ROCK! \*\* You’re gonnna have to explain that last sentence, DP.🙂 Thanks Quasi ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/9 "2001-10-05T13:40:59Z")
Keep in mind that _tithe_ means “tenth,” so reference to someone as a “tithe child” could simply mean “tenth child.” ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/10 "2001-10-05T14:01:08Z")
> [@](#): > > demanding a tenth of your children…The big surprise is that they took the last, not the first! Nope, never happened. The Church never demanded the tenth child. 🙂 I’m quite, quite sure. Here is what the concept of a “tithe child” really means. [http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainth05.htm](http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainth05.htm) > [@](#): > > Hildegard was born the 10th child (a tithe) to a noble family. As was customary with the tenth child, **which the family could not count on feeding,** she was dedicated at birth to the church. Infant and childbed mortality being what it was in the 11th century, for nobles and peasants alike, this probably didn’t happen very often, and certainly not often enough for The Church to have it as a standardized, non-voluntary procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/11 "2001-10-05T14:20:35Z")
casdave theologizes: > [@](#): > > The idea that a tithe means one tenth of your income is not true, it does mean a part of your income but did not mean that amount in practice. > > It has been taken to mean that by some churches of a more recent origin but then some of these seem to have interesting versions of their own scriptures done up to attempt to resemble fifteenth and sixteenth century vernacular. I can find, with a cursory search, about 10 Biblical references to giving a tenth of your income (be that money, harvest, or livestock) to the Lord. These references come from the old and new testaments, for example: > [@](#): > > Leviticus 27:32 > The entire tithe of the herd and flock–every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod–will be holy to the LORD. > > Numbers 18:26 > "Speak to the Levites and say to them: `When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD’s offering. > > Deuteronomy 14:22 > Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. > > Luke 11:42 > "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone. Are you saying that these and all other references to a tithe are mistranslations? BTW - there is no scriptural reference to “tithing” children, though there are more than a few instances where a child was given to the church to honor God. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/12 "2001-10-05T16:36:52Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Here is what the concept of a “tithe child” really means. > > [http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainth05.htm](http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainth05.htm) > > > [@](#): > > > > Hildegard was born the 10th child (a tithe) to a noble family. As was customary with the tenth child, which the family could not count on feeding, she was dedicated at birth to the church. > > \*\* I’m as suspicious about this revisionist explanation as I am about the original. Why would the tenth child specifically be thought to have been an additional burden? The variables which determined whether any particular medieval child was fed or starved were surely much more complicated than that. That said, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if some families in some places at some point in the past _voluntarily_ gave a tenth child to the Church as their personal interpretation of the tradition of the tithes. Can anyone however produce a plausible case of this, other than Hildegarde of Bingen? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/13 "2001-10-05T21:30:20Z")
I think that anyone who would pursue this further might find out the following: l. **who** first reported that she was the tenth child in her family? Cite? Not some Google hit, but **THE** original cite. 1. See if you can find a cite that disagrees with my cite above > [@](#): > > There is no record of her birth order or of the size of her family . ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/14 "2001-10-05T23:12:04Z")
At least I know the answer to my question. ---
**Author:** ![Cap\_n\_Crude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Cap\_n\_Crude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cap_n_Crude)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/15 "2001-10-05T23:22:21Z")
FWIW: among noble families, the third male child usually wound up joining the clergy. Usually this was for economic reasons – the firstborn inherited lands and title, the second was a backup in case the first died (and often served as an advisor). Women had fewer options. Some girls could be married off for political/financial alliance, but there were diminishing returns on this just as with the males. If there was no marriage, noble daughters (like Hildegarde) could either stay with the family or join the clergy as nuns. Between this and the well-research4ed responses of everybody before me, I’d say we’ve laid to rest the idea of giving your children to the church as tithe. As to the album thing – Hildegarde von Bingen wrote a lot of music, both common and ecclesiastical. A fair amount of it has been recorded in modern times. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/16 "2001-10-05T23:38:47Z")
Explain!? Well she cut a couple of albums with the Stones (they really are getting old!). But seriously, she is one of the first, if not the first, composer whose name is known to history. You can go to any serious classical music store and pick up some great CDs that she wrote the music for. Lest I be accused once again of being stupid (and not merely not funny), this was before recorded music and I was being facetiuous about her having made records as recording was not yet invented. This is not to say I am not stupid in some things, but this was an instance of failed humor, not stupidity. End of Disclaimer. These pieces are beautiful and unlike anything else you will hear. Lastly, she was born twenty years later than the original post says, and lived to about 81 years, not 101. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2001, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-tithe-child/85422/17 "2001-10-06T01:22:55Z")
…DP! I was intrigued by what you and others have said about her and will definitely do some online research. Of course I realized your comment about her albums was “tongue in cheek”, but it was one of those irrestistable instances, ya know? Will pick up some “tunes” by her this weekend. Quasi