# A "Truly" Awful Oscar Winner **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 4, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907 "2009-07-04T16:57:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![satoridt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@satoridt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/satoridt)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/21 "2009-07-05T05:51:14Z")
doesn’t Nicholas Cage have an Oscar? Because he’s awful. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/22 "2009-07-05T05:52:55Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Ah, so every movie with a catch phrase deserves an Oscar? Monty Python have been robbed! I merely point out that Marisa Tomei was very effective and highly memorable in a popular comedy. I repeat my earlier challenge: what was your favorite scene of Joan Plowright’s in “Enchanted April”? What was Judy Davis’ most memorable scene in “Husbands and Wives”? Or tell me specifically what you liked about Miranda RIchardson’s performance in “Damage”? Hmm? I’m waiting. You’re so sure that all these actresses were more worthy than MArisa, so it should be easy to tell me. You HAVE seen all those performances, haven’t you? I mean, it would be SILLY to insist that a performance you haven’t seen was more worthy of the OScar than Marisa’s, right? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/23 "2009-07-05T06:20:46Z")
My nomination would go to Sean Connery (best supporting actor in [The Untouchables](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Untouchables_(film)#Awards)). He’s so great at playing a gruff but lovable Scotsman, he refuses to do anything else. No problem back in the 60’s when he was a good James Bond, but that’s the only role he can play. ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/24 "2009-07-05T06:27:48Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > My nomination would go to Sean Connery (best supporting actor in [The Untouchables](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Untouchables_(film)#Awards)). He’s so great at playing a gruff but lovable Scotsman, he refuses to do anything else. No problem back in the 60’s when he was a good James Bond, but that’s the only role he can play. Have you seen the Name Of The Rose ? [The Name of the Rose (1986) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091605/) That was a very complex, subtle performance by Connery, and notably unScottish:- easily worthy of an Oscar in it’s own right. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/25 "2009-07-05T06:29:03Z")
> [@satoridt](#): > > doesn’t Nicholas Cage have an Oscar? Because he’s awful. Is that what he calls his cock? Oscar? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/26 "2009-07-05T06:50:38Z")
I’d definitely nominate Bing Crosby for Worst Actor Ever To Win an Oscar. He won Best Actor for Going My Way in 1944. He really coudn’t act his way out of a paper bag, but the movie was a musical so there wasn’t much acting to be done anyway. It’s as if Elvis had been awarded an Oscar for one of his terrible movies like Paradise Hawaiian Style or Clambake. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/27 "2009-07-05T07:48:24Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I’ll probably take some heat for this (again), because she apparently has lots of fans and defenders here, but I think [Marisa Tomei](http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0000673/), who won best supporting actress for [_My Cousin Vinny_](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0104952/), is not a great actress, and that that performance was the least Oscar-worthy of the nominees that year: > > Miranda Richardson - _Damage_ > Joan Plowright - \*Enchanted April \* > Vanessa Redgrave - _Howards End_ > Judy Davis - _Husbands and Wives_ > > I’m willing to grant that Ms. Tomei is not a \*bad \*actress, and that she’s done better work since then, but this particular award has always struck me as especially undeserved. Number of Oscar nominations Tomei has had since then: 2 Number of combined nominations the rest of her competition has had since then: 0 For years she was the knee-jerk punchline for the “unworthy” meme, but more than anyone else has proven that _Vinnie_ may not be a masterpiece, but she’s awfully good in it and has the chops for much more serious stuff, too. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/28 "2009-07-05T08:06:23Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > I can’t believe someone is putting Phillip Seymour Hoffman in this discussion. Even with his Oscar and his recent praise for ‘Doubt’, I think he’s actually UNDER appreciated. I personally think he disappears into most every role he plays. He’s a wonderful actor. Agreed. The man is highly, highly skilled. When I saw that scene in _Boogie Nights_ where he was hitting himself in the head over and over saying, “I’m an idiot! I’m so stupid! Stupid! Stupid!” (or whatever) I knew right then and there that someday that guy, whoever he was, was going to win an Oscar. I could just tell. And he’s not done yet. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/29 "2009-07-05T08:16:37Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Number of Oscar nominations Tomei has had since then: 2 > > Number of combined nominations the rest of her competition has had since then: 0 > > For years she was the knee-jerk punchline for the “unworthy” meme, but more than anyone else has proven that _Vinnie_ may not be a masterpiece, but she’s awfully good in it and has the chops for much more serious stuff, too. Well, to be fair, she’s the youngest of the bunch, and the only American. Those are both distinct advantages. Neither Vanessa Redgrave (age 72) nor Joan Plowright (age 79) were offered the role of the stripper in the Wrestler. I heard Aronofsky kept their audition tapes anyway, though. Anyway, I think this meme will die out eventually, as her more recent performances eclipse her former reputation. It was just that during the entire 90s, she was known as the Different World chick who won an Oscar for My Cousin Vinny, which wasn’t exactly high-brow stuff. I believe the only Oscar nomination the film received was for her performance (when will Ralph Macchio get his due?!?!). ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/30 "2009-07-05T08:35:00Z")
> [@Shamozzle](#): > > Agreed. The man is highly, highly skilled. When I saw that scene in _Boogie Nights_ where he was hitting himself in the head over and over saying, “I’m an idiot! I’m so stupid! Stupid! Stupid!” (or whatever) I knew right then and there that someday that guy, whoever he was, was going to win an Oscar. I could just tell. And he’s not done yet. Out of everything he’s been in, I think his best role ever is Freddie Miles in _The Talented Mr. Ripley._ He absolutely knocked that one out of the park. I read the novel that the film was based on and Hoffman gave a dynamic life to the role that was completely absent from the original story, at once sleazy, sarcastic and flamboyant. A terrific character, better acted IMO in three or four scenes in _Ripley_ than in the entire film _Capote._ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/31 "2009-07-05T13:41:40Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Out of everything he’s been in, I think his best role ever is Freddie Miles in _The Talented Mr. Ripley._ I’ve said it before and will again, but Philip Seymour Hoffman’s role as the villain in Mission Impossible III transcended that movie. It was a straightforward bad guy, but Hoffman was fantastic. In the world of big, loud, stupid action movies, the villains are usually very forgettable and look more like pissed-off European underwear models than criminal kingpins. Hoffman’s villain looked, sounded and acted like a genuine sociopath. He was exactly the sort of guy I would think actually would be a criminal kingpin. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/32 "2009-07-05T19:20:56Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I merely point out that Marisa Tomei was very effective and highly memorable in a popular comedy. I agree, but the other four performances had greater depth and showed much more subtlety and skill than Marisa did, IMHO. If the Oscar is awarded for talent in acting, any of the other four was more deserving than Tomei was, even if I can’t quote a snappy line from any of them 17 years later. > [@](#): > > You HAVE seen all those performances, haven’t you? I mean, it would be SILLY to insist that a performance you haven’t seen was more worthy of the OScar than Marisa’s, right? Yes, I have seen all of them, but most of them not since shortly after they were released. Ironically, I’ve seen _My Cousin Vinny_ more recently because the pro-Tomei sentiment in a previous thread was so strong that I decided to re-watch it just to see if maybe I had judged her too harshly. (Also it’s on the cable channels a lot more often than any of the others.) I have nothing against Ms. Tomei. As I’ve said, she has grown and demonstrated more talent since then. But even if I hadn’t seen the other four films, I’ve seen enough of those four women to know that they are all much better actresses than Tomei was then, and probably still are. Especially since Tomei’s performance in _Vinny_ as an uppity Italian-American from Brooklyn – even if it was funny, memorable, and perfect for the film – was little better than a stereotype that could have been done just as well by any of a dozen other actresses. Miranda Richardson is a particular favorite of mine. She’s amazingly talented, with brilliant ability for comedy, as she showed as the wacky Queen Elizabeth in _Black Adder_, but with even more skill at drama, as she showed in _Damage_, for which she won a BAFTA, the British Oscar. **ArchiveGuy** : you apparently missed the fact that Miranda was nominated for Best Actress in 1994 for _Tom & Viv_. You also neglected to mention that Redgrave has been nominated for six Oscars in her 50-year career and won one, and Davis had previously been nominated for Best Actress. (Marisa’s noms were all for Best Supporting.) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/33 "2009-07-05T19:34:25Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Cuba Gooding, Jr. > > There was a story about some actor who was very nervous about the upcoming Oscar ceremony when he was nominated until his wife said to him, “Just remember, Luise Ranier won it twice.” I don’t know if she was truly awful, but her acting style is terribly dated now; she would probably fit what you want. My husband hates Cuba Gooding, Jr. with the heat of a thousand suns. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/34 "2009-07-05T19:39:58Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > **ArchiveGuy** : you apparently missed the fact that Miranda was nominated for Best Actress in 1994 for _Tom & Viv_. You also neglected to mention that Redgrave has been nominated for six Oscars in her 50-year career and won one, and Davis had previously been nominated for Best Actress. (Marisa’s noms were all for Best Supporting.) I did omit Richardson (apologies) but was under no obligation to tally the rest, though if you so insist, Tomei still has more than Davis, Plowright, or Richardson as career tallies go. Personally, I would have voted for Davis, who is absolutely heartbreaking and bitterly funny in _H&W_. But I don’t begrudge the Academy because Tomei’s wasn’t a bad performance (as the category often rewards) but just unusal–people constantly complain that the Oscars don’t reward comedies, and when they do (and not just comedy-dramas, or ambitious-pseudo-comedies, but pure laughmakers), they complain about that, too. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/35 "2009-07-05T19:59:06Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I have nothing against Ms. Tomei. As I’ve said, she has grown and demonstrated more talent since then. But even if I hadn’t seen the other four films, I’ve seen enough of those four women to know that they are all much better actresses than Tomei was then, and probably still are. Especially since Tomei’s performance in _Vinny_ as an uppity Italian-American from Brooklyn – even if it was funny, memorable, and perfect for the film – was little better than a stereotype that could have been done just as well by any of a dozen other actresses. Plowright may have been a great stage actress, but her film career has largely consisted of coasting on the endless variations of British/European fusspot. You’ll get no argument from me about the others, but ultimately, it’s not about the Best Actress, just the “best” performance–which usually means the showiest. In most years, showiest involves the big teary scene, or hagging up a beautiful face, or being a pseuco-lead (“supporting” status notwithstanding), or having the big electric speech. For Tomei, I think it was clearly a combo of the last two, since she not only has the highly technical and breathless defense testimony but also plays the central role in resolving the case. It’s not something I would necessarily single out, but truly laughable winning performances like Renee Zellweger’s, Jennifer Connelly’s, or Whoopi Goldberg’s never got a fraction of the blowback, and that largely has to do with the fundamental prejudice people have against comedies: people are more easily impressed with dramas over comedies, generally speaking, and are more forgiving over bad broad theatrics over good broad comedy. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/36 "2009-07-06T07:03:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Julia Roberts. She’s amateur theater bad as an actress. She’s never created a convincing character in her life The movie she won her Oscar for was shamelessly contrived Oscar bait, yet she still wasn’t able to give a single line reading any convincing weight or come close to disappearing into the role. She gets a LOT of flack for her win from everywhere, but let me tell ya: I once saw the real Erin Brockovich speak at an event and she did a helluva Julia Roberts impersonation. JR’s performance in that flick was dead on. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/37 "2009-07-06T14:10:59Z")
I really hate when people win Oscars for doing impersonations of others. Instead of creating a character from the ground up or bringing some literary character to life (Daniel-Day Lewis, Heath Ledger, Forest Gump, Hannibal Lecter) which is in my mind an awesome achievement, they give Oscars to people who can do a spot on impersonation of a real life person (Harvey Milk, Ray Charles, Truman Capote, Richard Nixon, Johnny Cash, etc.) They should have a seperate category for best impersonation. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/38 "2009-07-06T15:16:46Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I really hate when people win Oscars for doing impersonations of others. Instead of creating a character from the ground up or bringing some literary character to life (Daniel-Day Lewis, Heath Ledger, Forest Gump, Hannibal Lecter) which is in my mind an awesome achievement, > they give Oscars to people who can do a spot on impersonation of a real life person (Harvey Milk, Ray Charles, Truman Capote, Richard Nixon, Johnny Cash, etc.) > They should have a seperate category for best impersonation. I think there have been some genuinely great performances of historical characters, but the sheer pervasiveness of the winners recently (you could add Queen Elizabeth, Idi Amin, Virginia Woolf, Edith Piaf, Aileen Wuornos, Erin Brockovich, Brandon Teena, and Katherine Hepburn to your list) does indeed reinforce the idea that you’re more likely to win if you impersonate someone else. And in all fairness, Daniel Day Lewis’ first Oscar was for playing a real person (and nobody’s ever won for playing Richard Nixon…yet). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/39 "2009-07-06T15:45:12Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > I think there have been some genuinely great performances of historical characters, but the sheer pervasiveness of the winners recently (you could add Queen Elizabeth, Idi Amin, Virginia Woolf, Edith Piaf, Aileen Wuornos, Erin Brockovich, Brandon Teena, and Katherine Hepburn to your list) does indeed reinforce the idea that you’re more likely to win if you impersonate someone else. > > And in all fairness, Daniel Day Lewis’ first Oscar was for playing a real person (and nobody’s ever won for playing Richard Nixon…yet). But WAS Hillary Swank impersonating Brandon Teena? WAS Nicole Kidman impersonating Virginia Woolf? Since I’ve never seen or heard the real people in question, I can’t say, and neither could most voters. Did anybody know, at the time, whether Julia Roberts really looked or sounded like Erin Brockovich? It’s different with Truman Capote and Ray Charles, of course. Most of the audience had a very good idea of what they sounded like, and what their mannerisms were. I think Philip Seymour Hoffman and Jamie Foxx both gave good performances- but I think Hoffman did a MUCH better job than Foxx of showing a bit of his character’s interior life. Both did good impersonations, capturing the voices and mannerisms of their characters, but Hoffman’s Capote seemed a more fleshed out person than Foxx’s Ray Charles. I can think of one other case in which an actor won the Oscar for, essentially, a spot-on impersonation: Geooffrey Rush, star of “Shine.” Now, I mean NO disrespect to Mr. Rush, who IS a superb actor. But for the role of David Helfgott, Rush didn’t need to do much real acting. All he had to do was adopt Helfgott’s rapid-fire babble and affect Helfgott’s goofy laugh. After all, the adult Helfgott doesn’t have much of an interior life. There was no need for Rush to try toi convey deep emotions or thoughts, because the adult David Helfgott doesn’t HAVE any of those. In my opinion, the actor who played the YOUNG David Helfgott had a much harder role- he had to portray a young amn with a wide range of thoughts and feelings, while ALSO showing hints of future mental illness. Geoffrey Rush could do a mere impersonation; the young actor had to WORK. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907/40 "2009-07-06T15:57:42Z")
It was many years ago now, but I recall vaguely starting a thread about just this thing: Is portraying a well-known historical figure (such as Ali) great acting or great impersonation. I think it is an interesting discussion, but I don’t recall how it went. I tend to discount actors who dok these roles, not that they can’tmake it believable or act well, just that they have a fleshed out template from which to work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-truly-awful-oscar-winner/501907.md?page=3)