# A valid reason to hate Oprah. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244 "2008-04-21T16:22:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/21 "2008-04-21T17:31:43Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] That’s what the criticism of it imples, but not having read the book myself, I can’t comment on whether the book actually says that. I very much doubt that it does, but I don’t know. [/quote] It does. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/22 "2008-04-21T17:33:56Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] I mean, this stuff is no different from Ben Stein’s latest bullshit, and Chrisitian prayer, and really not far from Scientology- what’s the difference between Thetans and the power of positive thought? Yet all those have been slammed here by the masses and everywhere else, but this bullshit gets a pass because its Oprah, the same Oprah who let “Dr.” Phil loose on the world. [/QUOTE] Because “the power of positive thought” does not involve brainwashing and kidnap cults and money-based paths to enlightenment. It just involves thinking positively. It existed before Oprah was born and it’ll exist after Oprah is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/23 "2008-04-21T17:33:57Z")
[QUOTE=amarinth] Why, exactly, do you have “Dr.” in quotes? I don’t watch his show and find him annoying - but he does have a [Ph.D. in clinical psychology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_McGraw), which makes the title “Doctor” appropriate for him. [/QUOTE] _The Texas State Board of Examiners of Psychologists imposed disciplinary sanctions on McGraw on January 27, 1989 for an inappropriate “dual relationship” reported in 1988 by a therapy client/employee from 1984. McGraw was ordered by the Board to take an ethics class, pass a jurisprudence exam, complete a physical evaluation, undergo a psychological evaluation and have his practice supervised for one year in order to continue his private practice in Texas. McGraw admits to giving the client a “job” at his office (which is not allowed), but denied carrying on a sexual relationship with the 19-year-old, who says their relationship was “sexually inappropriate.”[31][3][12] As of 2008, McGraw has not completed the conditions imposed by the Board of Examiners of Psychologists,[32] and he is not licensed to practice psychology in Texas, California, or anywhere else.[33]_ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/24 "2008-04-21T17:33:59Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] One of the authors was on Larry King last week [/quote] Missed the edit window. That should have said last year, not last week. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/25 "2008-04-21T17:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > At the risk be accused of being a woo woo, I think that the principles espoused have a basis in reality. No, you won’t become rich just by thinking about money. But if you surround yourself with success, you’ll start to think in terms off success. It’s not really a huge mystery how that works. The problem is that thinking positively never made anyone a dollar. Wanting to be successful might be a motive that can drive a person to become wealthy but it’s not a means to do so. John D. Rockefeller didn’t become a billionaire because he wanted to be rich, he became a billionaire because he bought and sold oil. So _The Secret_ and all of the previous “positive thinking” books are essentially bullshit. They’re telling people if they make themselves hungry enough, food will appear. But they don’t say anything about finding that food. And by claiming that acquiring a strong motive to succeed is the key to success, they’re diverting people’s energy from doing the things that actually create financial success. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/26 "2008-04-21T17:39:20Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] “The Secret” does more than just promote platitudes about positive thinking. It engages in victim-blaming on a massive scale, denying that there is any such thing as bad luck or a victim who didn’t “attract” it. [/QUOTE] If that’s the case, then I’ll condemn it too. It’d be nice to see an excerpt or two where this happens. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/27 "2008-04-21T17:39:30Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] Because “the power of positive thought” does not involve brainwashing and kidnap cults and \*\*money-based \*\* paths to enlightenment. It just involves thinking positively. It existed before Oprah was born and it’ll exist after Oprah is dead. [/QUOTE] I have it on good authority that anyone who wants the book is expected to pay for it. And if you buy into it, you’re pretty much brainwashed. Again, other snake oil salesmen gets slammed- why the free pass for Oprah because this scam is “nothing new”? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/28 "2008-04-21T17:46:26Z")
Did we need a valid reason? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/29 "2008-04-21T17:52:32Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Assuming she’s the dupe and not the duper, then she’s on par Tom Cruise who gets massive ridicule that Oprah hasn’t gotten. [/QUOTE] Not really comparable. Tom Cruise became a target for ridicule not because of his beliefs, but because of the way he acted: he publically attacked people who disagreed with him, and acted like a lunatic in public. I haven’t heard of Oprah doing that, although I don’t follow her career with the same level of scrutiny you do, so I might have missed something. Scientology in general has come under attack lately, at least partly because of the (negative) attention Tom Cruise brought it, and I agree that this “Secret” nonsense deserves similar scorn. But not all Scientologists deserve to be treated like Tom Cruise, and not all people who buy into a hokey philosophy deserve to be treated like Scientologists. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/30 "2008-04-21T17:59:35Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] I have it on good authority that anyone who wants the book is expected to pay for it. And if you buy into it, you’re pretty much brainwashed. [/QUOTE] If you buy a $20 book, you’re brainwashed now? Man, Super Smash Bros Brawl brainwashed me twice as hard a few weeks ago. I guess I better do my daily prayers towards Kyoto to appease the my new god Miyamoto. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/31 "2008-04-21T18:02:49Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] If you buy a $20 book, you’re brainwashed now? Man, Super Smash Bros Brawl brainwashed me twice as hard a few weeks ago. I guess I better do my daily prayers towards Kyoto to appease the my new god Miyamoto. [/QUOTE] If they sell a book (and a newsletter, and god knows what else) that you need to have to get the full effect of THE SECRET, then yeah, that’s a money based scheme, and if you BUY INTO the scheme, then yeah, you’re brainwashed to a degree, sure. _Brainwashing (also known as thought reform or as re-education) consists of any effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in a person — unwelcome beliefs in conflict with the person’s prior beliefs and knowledge.[1]_ ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/32 "2008-04-21T18:14:50Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] If they sell a book (and a newsletter, and god knows what else) that you need to have to get the full effect of THE SECRET, then yeah, that’s a money based scheme, and if you BUY INTO the scheme, then yeah, you’re brainwashed to a degree, sure. [/QUOTE] But you don’t have to buy anything to take part in this “positive thinking” craze. You can buy the book and the newsletter and the audiobook (with a bonus chapter not seen in the book!) and god knows what else, but you don’t have to. And, I’m sure you hate to hear this, but The Secret (as stupid as it is) has never hurt anybody. That is the key difference on why it gets a “pass.” ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/33 "2008-04-21T18:33:36Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] If that’s the case, then I’ll condemn it too. It’d be nice to see an excerpt or two where this happens. [/QUOTE] You could read the book, or even just Google “the secret blame the victim.” I loathe this book for reasons **Dio** already set forth. My mom is in chemo and two “well-meaning” friends have given her this book, either expecting her to be too stupid to see the “bad things happen to you because you didn’t wish hard enough” implications, or being too stupid to see them themselves. But they are there, believe me. _The Secret_ is not merely “the power of positive thinking,” which I have no problem with within reasonble limits. It is the completely baseless New Age bullshit idea that we are all “magnets” that attract energy from the Universe, and if you attract bad energy – well, you deserved it. As an [opinion piece](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/06/AR2007040601819_pf.html) in the Washington Post pointed out: > [@](#): > > Still worse is the insidious flip side of Byrne’s philosophy: If bad things happen to you, it’s all your fault. As surely as your thoughts bring health, wealth and love, they are also responsible for any illness, poverty or misery that comes your way. > > That isn’t just implied, it’s spelled out: “The only reason why people do not have what they want is because they are thinking more about what they don’t want than what they do want.” By this logic, Holocaust victims brought it on themselves, as did those who lost their homes in Hurricane Katrina. Come on, New Orleans, get over it! Think positive! > . . . . > > Not even “Saturday Night Live,” taking a poke at “The Secret’s” finger-pointing fallacies, could make it [funny]. One recent weekend, the show featured a skit about a man in Darfur being interviewed by Winfrey and Byrne. They scolded him when he lamented that his people were starving, saying it was all the result of his lousy attitude. That was played for laughs, but later that week I watched Bob Proctor, author of “You Were Born Rich” and one of the “gurus” Byrne quotes most often, being asked on “Nightline” whether the starving children of Darfur had “manifested” – that is, visualized – their own misery. In utter seriousness, he replied, “I think the country probably has.” I think the massive stupidity of _The Secret_ would be funny if people weren’t taking it seriously. But they are, and it’s IMO not just silly but damaging. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/34 "2008-04-21T18:38:52Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] And, I’m sure you hate to hear this, but The Secret (as stupid as it is) has never hurt anybody. That is the key difference on why it gets a “pass.” [/QUOTE] But it _does_ hurt people, and I’m telling you that as the daughter of a cancer victim who has been personally hurt by the philosophy of this book. Fortunately her hurt was only emotional, stemming from being told that she’s sick because she subconsciously wants to be or somehow attracted cancer to herself. Don’t even get me started on people who might think the way to heal physical or psychological illness is through aligning yourself with the universe and wishing yourself better. It _is_ in some ways akin to Scientology’s rejection of psychiatry in favor of “auditing” for mental illness, or Christian Science’s rejection of modern medicine in favor of prayer for physical illness. And just as those belief systems are dangerous in those areas, so is this one. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/35 "2008-04-21T18:40:20Z")
Not to mention that the whole philosophy has an easy out- you thought positively and bad things still happened to you? Well you must not have thought positiviely enough then. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/36 "2008-04-21T18:43:20Z")
And it gets _worse_. Since you don’t want to attract bad energy, not only should you only focus on your own good health, you also should neither be around people who are ill (with all their bad energy) or, if you must be around people who are ill, you should not let them talk about their illness. Apparently there wasn’t much thought in _The Secret_ about manifesting kindness or compassion. I really cannot articulate how much I despise this book. _Gah!_ ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/37 "2008-04-21T18:46:37Z")
Scott Peck presents a more reasonable version of this theory in his book _Further Along the Road Less Traveled_. He uses the example of himself and his patient (being treated for really low self-esteem or something along those lines) driving through a snowstorm (separately) and how he got home safely while his patient got into an accident. He is careful to point out that while his patient wasn’t anywhere near suicidal, there was probably a difference in subconscious thought - Peck drove more carefully because he thought of himself as a sort of “precious package” that had to get to its destination safely, while the patient didn’t think of himself in those terms on any level. Peck also makes it very clear that he doesn’t mean this theory is applicable to all life situations - his only point is that generally positive/negative attitudes affect our lives more subtly than we might think. Like many things, the problem arises when you start taking things to extremes - _The Secret_ seems to be an extreme version of the above. “Our general attitudes can affect aspects of our lives” becomes “_Everything_ in our lives is shaped by our attitudes.” Wonder of Oprah’s ever heard of a fellow by the name of Karl Marx. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/38 "2008-04-21T18:47:50Z")
The “positive thinking” mantra was also big in the 1930s for awhile. Apparently, if you thought hard enough that you were improving on a daily basis, you would. That it was extremely hard to escape the Depression that way likely meant that you just weren’t thinking positively enough. :rolleyes: Anyway, this old hat-New Age stuff of Oprah’s ties into her giving a platform to alternative medicine woo and quackery, including the promotion of antivaccinationist nonsense, most recently the appearance of Jenny McCarthy to spread misinformation about autism. Oprah’s not alone in this sort of thing (Larry King is another major offender), but somewhere along the line her own formula for success got heavily tied to whatever boosts the ratings - never mind serving her viewers in a meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/39 "2008-04-21T18:57:31Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] To quote the linked article: \*Because, with survivors of Auschwitz still alive, Oprah writes this about “The Secret” on her Web site, “the energy you put into the world – both good and bad – is exactly what comes back to you. This means you create the circumstances of your life with the choices you make every day.” “Venality,” because Oprah, in the age of AIDS, is advertising a book that says, “You cannot ‘catch’ anything unless you think you can, and thinking you can is inviting it to you with your thought.” “Venality,” because Oprah, from a studio within walking distance of Chicago’s notorious Cabrini Green Projects, pitches a book that says, “The only reason any person does not have enough money is because they are blocking money from coming to them with their thoughts.” \* [/QUOTE] I thought these were just exaggerations in the article, but from the follow-up posts, it seems the author is quite serious, especially given the Larry King interview. Yes, that I would agree is a bit much and harmful. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/40 "2008-04-21T19:02:16Z")
> [@](#): > > That isn’t just implied, it’s spelled out: “The only reason why people do not have what they want is because they are thinking more about what they don’t want than what they do want.” By this logic, Holocaust victims brought it on themselves, as did those who lost their homes in Hurricane Katrina. Come on, New Orleans, get over it! Think positive! Having only read that little bit, that seems like a pretty huge misinterpretation. What I got from the text is that, for example, if you want a better job, then focus your energies on what a better job would look like rather than on how your boss is a big jerk. Or if you want to improve your social skills, surround yourself with people with social skills rather than social misfits. That makes absolute sense to me and there is nothing woo woo about it. And that’s all the quoted bit seems to be saying. To draw the conclusion that was drawn in the commentary is making quite a jump, and entirely missing the point. There has been some evidence posted that the authors fully support a blame the victim mentality, but to me so far it seems like it could be out of context or anecdotal. So far I’m still undecided. Even if the book is on rock-solid ground (and that’s a big if), however, I can see people misunderstanding it and adopting a blame the victim mentality. That would be really bad news. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244.md?page=3)