# A valid reason to hate Oprah. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244 "2008-04-21T16:22:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/81 "2008-04-22T20:53:22Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Well I agree that you should get medical attention. However, positive thinking does help in the recovery process. I’ve read about it, but don’t have a cite handy. Basically negative thinking sends inhibitory responses to the nervous system where positive thinking sends stimulatory. This can be beneficial if you are say, trying to send blood to a wound in order to help it heal. [/QUOTE] I’ve heard about that. Too bad you don’t have a cite. Maybe this would be good fodder for GQ. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/82 "2008-04-22T21:12:25Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] I’ve heard about that. Too bad you don’t have a cite. Maybe this would be good fodder for GQ. [/QUOTE] Yeah possibly. I did a little Google search but didn’t sift through a lot of the more eastern flavored stuff. Basically, the Secret is based off of a lot of older mystical concepts, and is dumbed down for mass consumption. The basis from which it is being taken is essentially Hermetic. However, hermeticism doesn’t remove the need for action, which The Secret seems to do so that it can market to the lazy. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/83 "2008-04-22T21:27:45Z")
Oops ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/84 "2008-04-22T21:53:43Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] And now I’m visualizing you blowing me. [/QUOTE] Every Wednesday my company has a meeting where there are about 10 of us - all same level managment and the owner where we talk about leadership and improvement. I \*will \* somehow work this sentence into it. God help me, I will. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/85 "2008-04-22T22:00:30Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] If so, the basic principals are actually fine- it’s basically “think what you want/think how you’re going to get it [and in specifics in both cases]” advice. It just irks me that they tie in the ancients and the supernatural to general common sense. [/QUOTE] Hiow in the world is this general common sense?" My emphasis. > [@](#): > > The second thing to know is that the condition of being overweight was created through your thought to it. **To put it in the most basic terms, if someone is overweight, it came from thinking “fat thoughts,” whether that person was aware of it or not. A person cannot think “thin thoughts” and be fat. It completely defies the law of attraction.** > > **Whether people have been told they have a slow thyroid, a slow metabolism, or their body size is hereditary, these are all disguises for thinking “fat thoughts.”** If you accept any of those conditions as applicable to you, and you believe it, it must become your experience, and you will continue to attract being overweight. These people teach that everything bad that happens to people is because they thought negative thoughts, and furthermore, this is a law of the universe. It is dangerous, nasty shit. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/86 "2008-04-22T22:02:51Z")
I just thought fat thoughts and ate a bunch of ice cream. Maybe if I thought thin thoughts I wouldn’t have eaten the ice cream. See, common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/87 "2008-04-22T22:16:09Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I just thought fat thoughts and ate a bunch of ice cream. Maybe if I thought thin thoughts I wouldn’t have eaten the ice cream. See, common sense. [/QUOTE] See shit. There is no maybe about it, according to _The Secret._ It is a universal law. Eating ice cream has fuck all to do with it. Heredity has fuck all to do with it. Thyroid conditions have fuck all to do with it. The terms “fat thoughts” and “thin thoughts” may be common sense to you, but to me they are nonsense. Or did absolutely every prisoner in a German concentration camp think thin thoughts? It wasn’t the forced labor on starvation rations that turned them into human skeletons, it was the Law of Attraction. I honestly don’t see how you can defend this bullshit, and you’ve defended some ridiculous crap around here. Are you sure you aren’t just jerking me around? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/88 "2008-04-22T22:25:29Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] See shit. There is no maybe about it, according to _The Secret._ It is a universal law. Eating ice cream has fuck all to do with it. Heredity has fuck all to do with it. Thyroid conditions have fuck all to do with it. The terms “fat thoughts” and “thin thoughts” may be common sense to you, but to me they are nonsense. Or did absolutely every prisoner in a German concentration camp think thin thoughts? It wasn’t the forced labor on starvation rations that turned them into human skeletons, it was the Law of Attraction. I honestly don’t see how you can defend this bullshit, and you’ve defended some ridiculous crap around here. Are you sure you aren’t just jerking me around? [/QUOTE] Well I think that the Secret is oversimplified, but to call it pure crap is well pure crap. It’s just so oversimplified as to be relatively valueless. The point is that human beings have a lot more control over their lives than we generally suspect. As for the Holocaust, there are plenty of people including some Jews who blame the Jews not following God’s commands to the letter for their trials during their exile. I am not one of those people, but there are people who believe that to be so. \ I agree that it’s oversimplified, but not that it’s total bullshit, because I’ve experienced it at work. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/89 "2008-04-22T22:29:35Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] And it gets _worse_. Since you don’t want to attract bad energy, not only should you only focus on your own good health, you also should neither be around people who are ill (with all their bad energy) or, if you must be around people who are ill, you should not let them talk about their illness. [/QUOTE] Huh. Sorta cuts into the ol’ job description. “I’m sorry, I really don’t have time to listen about your STD, it cuts into my healthful self image.” On the other hand, all the paperwork on my desk would go away fairly quickly… ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/90 "2008-04-22T22:35:57Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] I honestly don’t see how you can defend this bullshit, and you’ve defended some ridiculous crap around here. Are you sure you aren’t just jerking me around? [/QUOTE] If he is it sure is fun to watch. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/91 "2008-04-22T22:45:29Z")
[QUOTE=Omegaman] If he is it sure is fun to watch. 😃 [/QUOTE] People are so certain that THEY KNOW! It’s fun to defend the non-status quo position. Personally I’ve seen the Law of Attraction in action, and examined the idea long before the book was ever published. I’ve seen people attract things to them just by wishing it, and I’ve studied different methods of focusing one’s will to attract things to them. The Hindu notion of karma/dharma essentially says that yes, we are responsible for everything bad that happens to us, including illness and the holocaust. People like **Contrapuntal** like to think that this ancient wisdom is ‘obviously stupid and wrong.’, but I don’t see it as quite so obvious. Western materialists like to think that their position isn’t dogmatic, but it’s incredibly dogmatic. Generally though, no one recognizes their own dogma. So what’s to be done about it? Nothing really, just play around with ideas and see what realizations people come to on their own. The Secret isn’t really any more dangerous than the notion that everything is totally deterministic and we have no control over anything, which is sort of the converse of it. The Secret is ‘sorta’ true. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/92 "2008-04-22T22:46:30Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Well I think that the Secret is oversimplified, but to call it pure crap is well pure crap. It’s just so oversimplified as to be relatively valueless. The point is that human beings have a lot more control over their lives than we generally suspect. > [@](#): > > That may be your point, but it’s not the point of _The Secret_. Not even close. > > > [@](#): > > > > As for the Holocaust, there are plenty of people including some Jews who blame the Jews not following God’s commands to the letter for their trials during their exile. I am not one of those people, but there are people who believe that to be so. > > So what? What has that to do with anything? You are really reaching here, and in a quite despicable way. Why bring such bullshit up, if you do not believe it? That’s low. > > The Secret says it is impossible for a\* person\* to be thin while thinking fat thoughts, and that biology has nothing to do with it. It says nothing about a _group_ of people being _punished_ for some religious discretion. > > And not all concentration camp prisoners were Jewish. Did not one single one ever think fat thoughts? Or fucking “I wish I were anywhere but here” thoughts? > > > [@](#): > > > > I agree that it’s oversimplified, > > Not oversimplified. Simply wrong. There is no Universal Law of Attraction. Full stop. > > > [@](#): > > > > but not that it’s total bullshit, because I’ve experienced it at work. > > Confirmation bias explains that perfectly well, without having to postulate a Universal Law of Attraction. Or blaming a widow in Rawanda for her rape, subsequent AIDS infection, and the passing on of same to her children. > > [QUOTE=Omegaman] > If he is it sure is fun to watch. You’re rather easily amused, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/93 "2008-04-22T22:54:23Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Well I think that the Secret is oversimplified, but to call it pure crap is well pure crap. It’s just so oversimplified as to be relatively valueless. The point is that human beings have a lot more control over their lives than we generally suspect. [/QUOTE] That may be your point, but it’s not the point of _The Secret_. Not even close. > [@](#): > > As for the Holocaust, there are plenty of people including some Jews who blame the Jews not following God’s commands to the letter for their trials during their exile. I am not one of those people, but there are people who believe that to be so. So what? What has that to do with anything? You are really reaching here, and in a quite despicable way. Why bring such bullshit up, if you do not believe it? That’s low. _The Secret says it is impossible for a person_ to be thin while thinking fat thoughts, and that biology has nothing to do with it. It says nothing about a _group_ of people being _punished_ for some religious discretion. And not all concentration camp prisoners were Jewish. Did not one single one ever think fat thoughts? Or fucking “I wish I were anywhere but here” thoughts? > [@](#): > > I agree that it’s oversimplified, Not oversimplified. Simply wrong. There is no Universal Law of Attraction. Full stop. > [@](#): > > but not that it’s total bullshit, because I’ve experienced it at work. Confirmation bias explains that perfectly well, without having to postulate a Universal Law of Attraction. Or blaming a widow in Rawanda for her rape, subsequent AIDS infection, and the passing on of same to her children. [QUOTE=Omegaman] If he is it sure is fun to watch. [/QUOTE] You’re rather easily amused, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/94 "2008-04-22T23:01:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve seen people attract things to them just by wishing it, No, you haven’t. > [@](#): > > The Hindu notion of karma/dharma essentially says that yes, we are responsible for everything bad that happens to us, including illness and the holocaust. People like Contrapuntal like to think that this ancient wisdom is ‘obviously stupid and wrong.’, but I don’t see it as quite so obvious. Not “quite so obvious” is a far cry from “this is the way things are,” but if you think that a baby is responsible for her cerebral palsy, or that the _Jews are responsible for the Holocaust_ (a position you denied about ten minutes ago,) you are a vile and disgusting excuse for a human being. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/95 "2008-04-22T23:03:40Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] That may be your point, but it’s not the point of _The Secret_. Not even close. [/quote] It is, they just take it to an extreme. > [@](#): > > So what? What has that to do with anything? You are really reaching here, and in a quite despicable way. Why bring such bullshit up, if you do not believe it? That’s low. Oh fuck you and your false shock. The point was brought up early in the thread. > [@](#): > > _The Secret says it is impossible for a person_ to be thin while thinking fat thoughts, and that biology has nothing to do with it. It says nothing about a _group_ of people being _punished_ for some religious discretion. Please show me a cite of where it says biology has nothing to do with it. > [@](#): > > And not all concentration camp prisoners were Jewish. Did not one single one ever think fat thoughts? Or fucking “I wish I were anywhere but here” thoughts? I don’t agree that it’s an immutable law, but it’s definitely useful as a principle. It’s easy to take it this far, but to call it a dangerous ideology is stupid, it’s a fucking self-help fad, get some perspective. > [@](#): > > Not oversimplified. Simply wrong. There is no Universal Law of Attraction. Full stop. As I said oversimplified. > [@](#): > > Confirmation bias explains that perfectly well, without having to postulate a Universal Law of Attraction. Or blaming a widow in Rawanda for her rape, subsequent AIDS infection, and the passing on of same to her children. Whatever, you’re just looking for an excuse to be a hater. Sure, it’s got some glaring flaws, but it’s a fucking self-help fad. Look for an excuse to hate Oprah or the publishers of the book, but it’s just some recreational outrage that you can’t keep within due bounds. Prosperity Theology says that Jesus wants you to be rich, while that seems to me to be in direct contradiction to what the bible says, I don’t go so far as to think it means that Jesus hates you because you’re not rich. > [@](#): > > You’re rather easily amused, aren’t you? Most people are amused when the piss gets taken out of the pompous and arrogant. Your world sucks, not only are their shades of grey, there’s a whole fucking spectrum. Get out of your black and white world and upgrade to a 1080i plasma why don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/96 "2008-04-22T23:05:25Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] No, you haven’t. [/quote] I see, so you know more about what I have experienced, even though I didn’t even cite specific examples, than I do. Well that’s mighty white of you oh holy priest of rationalism. > [@](#): > > Not “quite so obvious” is a far cry from “this is the way things are,” but if you think that a baby is responsible for her cerebral palsy, or that the _Jews are responsible for the Holocaust_ (a position you denied about ten minutes ago,) you are a vile and disgusting excuse for a human being. Yeah, whatever, cry me some more dogma. IT’S A FUCKING SELF-HELP FAD!!! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/97 "2008-04-22T23:15:00Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I see, so you know more about what I have experienced, even though I didn’t even cite specific examples, than I do. Well that’s mighty white of you oh holy priest of rationalism. [/QUOTE] I don’t have to know anything about your experience to know that impossible shit is impossible. There is no Universal Law of Attraction. People get fat because they eat too much, not because they think fat thoughts. Babies are not responsible for their illnesses. Children living in garbage dumps in India are not responsible for the rat bites on their shoeless feet. \*\*The Rawandan widow was not thinking fucking rape thoughts which caused her to get fucking raped. \*\* > [@](#): > > Yeah, whatever, cry me some more dogma. I don’t think that word means what you think it means. > [@](#): > > IT’S A FUCKING SELF-HELP FAD!!! It’s a piece of trash that steals money from people by lying to them and giving them false hope. > [@](#): > > Please show me a cite of where it says biology has nothing to do with it. I’ve already given one that says that hypothyroidism has nothing to with weight gain. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/98 "2008-04-22T23:20:47Z")
[QUOTE=Talon Karrde] “For I was hungry and you turned away so as to not become hungry yourself For I was thirsty and you did the same to not be thirsty For I was a stranger and you turned me away so you wouldn’t become lost For I needed clothes and you passed me by so you wouldn’t lose your own clothes For I was sick and you refused to look after me and risk catching my illness For I was in prison and you stayed far away so I wouldn’t drag you into crime” There’s a difference with Christianity. I’m not as familiar with Buddhism, but my understanding of a mega-condensed version of their beliefs is that it has something to do with working toward slow personal growth beyond the suffering that is life. There is a harmony there that is much more grounded than the instant gratification or failure of The Secret, which once you learn leads to easy personal material gain. [/QUOTE] I just wanted to be clear I wasn’t attacking Christianity or Buddhism, but just sort of putting _The Secret_ into the context of all the silly things people believe. There are some very well-meaning Christians and Buddhists out there who nevertheless believe that people attract negative misfortune because of past behaviors. But I suppose they get pitted too. I’ve thought this over and I really can’t justify the belief system behind _The Secret_, any more than I could get behind the Nichiren Buddhist guy who told me if you chant enough mantras you will be granted all you desire. It’s very silly, especially knowing that The Second Noble Truth is that the root of suffering is desire. But I try to keep in mind that there are people out there who think my own beliefs are silly too. And I really, really like Oprah. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/99 "2008-04-22T23:23:19Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] I don’t have to know anything about your experience to know that impossible shit is impossible. There is no Universal Law of Attraction. People get fat because they eat too much, not because they think fat thoughts. Babies are not responsible for their illnesses. Children living in garbage dumps in India are not responsible for the rat bites on their shoeless feet. **The Rawandan widow was not thinking fucking rape thoughts which caused her to get fucking raped.** [/quote] Well, what you think is impossible, I’ve seen happen. Call it selection bias if you will, but it can be directed. > [@](#): > > I don’t think that word means what you think it means. No, it means exactly what I think it means. Your vanity just tells you it doesn’t apply to you. > [@](#): > > It’s a piece of trash that steals money from people by lying to them and giving them false hope. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I’ve already given one that says that hypothyroidism has nothing to with weight gain. Well, then the book is wrong on that one. _shrugs_ ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244/100 "2008-04-22T23:41:36Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] You’re rather easily amused, aren’t you? [/QUOTE] Well **mswas**'s answer was better but your right, I’m pretty easily amused. You do seem a little full of yourself though. And why shouldn’t you be? You’re intellect is quite impressive. I’m sure I’m not alone in noticing how smart you are. Just like a brand new suit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-valid-reason-to-hate-oprah/446244.md?page=6)