# A vengeful nutjob with a gun is coming for you RIGHT NOW. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424 "2015-08-10T03:40:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/41 "2015-08-10T15:03:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’ve got to say, I’m rather shocked that so many folks are answering that they would stay at home. It just strikes me as absolutely the wrong thing to do, even if one is armed. For those who answer this way, can you help illustrate why you think this is the right thing to do? > > For example, if you are armed, what do you think the odds are that you kill or stop the crazy dude before he wounds or kills you or any family member? Is it 100%, in your view? 98%? 90%? > > If you are not armed, what do you believe the odds are that the police show up and stop the guy before he can enter your house? 100%? 98%? 90%? I’m from the UK, so I actually don’t believe the nutjob is armed. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/42 "2015-08-10T15:04:45Z")
Leaving home is a bad idea. That either means the wife is with me being chased by a crazy person, or she is home alone when a crazy person arrives. Better to send the wife to the neighbors place to wait for the cops and hunker down and wait at home myself. The biggest problem would be choosing the right response weapons. With 10 minutes warning, there will be 5 cops at my place waiting for him. It’s a small town. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/43 "2015-08-10T15:04:56Z")
I call the cops, get myself and my family out of the house, and repeat as often as necessary until the vengeful nutjob is arrested. I certainly carry my firearm with me just in case, but I have no desire whatsoever to actually use it. Willingness to use it to protect myself and my family does not indicate a desire to use it. It is an absolute last resort. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/44 "2015-08-10T15:07:40Z")
Well, the tipster said the guy was 10 minutes away and that’s not a lot of time to get out of my pajamas and wake my husband and all that. I’d be too nervous to go outside, especially in the dark. The shooter could already be out there aiming for me. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/45 "2015-08-10T15:07:58Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I’m from the UK, so I actually don’t believe the nutjob is armed. He could have a rifle or a shotgun he legally owns. Or this [Firearms: cheap, easy to get and on a street near you | Crime | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1) . ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/46 "2015-08-10T15:11:56Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I’m from the UK, so I actually don’t believe the nutjob is armed. Yeah don’t be too sure about that. A guy got shot in the head outside his front door last year, not two streets away from me. About 15 minutes after I’d taken the dog for her last walk down that same street too. The police told us it could quite likely have been an act of revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/47 "2015-08-10T15:23:25Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I’m from the UK, so I actually don’t believe the nutjob is armed. There was a driveby shooting around the corner from my (London) house last year. Just because guns are hard to come by doesn’t mean they’re impossible to come by, particularly when the person in question is _really_ determined to shoot someone. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/48 "2015-08-10T15:25:31Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I’m from the UK, so I actually don’t believe the nutjob is armed. From the [Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/are-we-hostages-to-gun-culture-1341917.html) 19 years ago: > [@](#): > > No-one knows for sure how many guns - legal or illegal - there are in Britain. The Home Office estimates there are some 396,800 legally held firearms - broadly rifles and pistols. It has a somewhat hazier estimate that there are about 1,330,000 legally held shotguns. > The number illegally owned is literally unknown - although it is known the numbers are rising with senior police officers such as Sir Paul Condon, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, expressing fears of an emerging “gun culture” on the streets of Britain’s inner cities. Estimates of illegal weapons range from 500,000 to a million or more, perhaps many more. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/49 "2015-08-10T15:36:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’ve got to say, I’m rather shocked that so many folks are answering that they would stay at home. It just strikes me as absolutely the wrong thing to do, even if one is armed. For those who answer this way, can you help illustrate why you think this is the right thing to do? He can’t get in my house, and if he knows I’m home, chances are he’ll keep banging on my door until the police show up and neutralize him. They’ll be the hammer and my front door will be the anvil. If I run and he finds an empty apartment, he’ll run too, and the cops might not catch him. How is that not worse? Next time I may not get 10 minutes’ warning. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/50 "2015-08-10T15:45:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > He can’t get in my house, and if he knows I’m home, chances are he’ll keep banging on my door until the police show up and neutralize him. They’ll be the hammer and my front door will be the anvil. If I run and he finds an empty apartment, he’ll run too, and the cops might not catch him. How is that not worse? Next time I may not get 10 minutes’ warning. I understand if someone lives in a very secure place, next tons police station, have a panic room, etc. I just didn’t expect that most of the responders in this thread were in such a situation. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/51 "2015-08-10T15:47:21Z")
My house is arranged such that the only two entrances available without a ladder lead into an open room with a single long hallway leading from it. I’d just grab my 308 and lay down at the end of the hallway with a nice gun rest. As for when to call the cops I’m not sure. On one hand they’d be here before the killer but since he’s waited this long for revenge there is no rrason the think he won’t just go away once he sees the cops. On the other hand they’ll be at my house minutes after the first gun shot so some where after him breaking in, that should maximize the chances of him being caught. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/52 "2015-08-10T15:51:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’ve got to say, I’m rather shocked that so many folks are answering that they would stay at home. It just strikes me as absolutely the wrong thing to do, even if one is armed. For those who answer this way, can you help illustrate why you think this is the right thing to do? > > For example, if you are armed, what do you think the odds are that you kill or stop the crazy dude before he wounds or kills you or any family member? Is it 100%, in your view? 98%? 90%? > > If you are not armed, what do you believe the odds are that the police show up and stop the guy before he can enter your house? 100%? 98%? 90%? Armed, and with ten minutes warning, against one guy with a handgun? Virtually 100%, minus a tiny epsilon, that I can stop him before he kills or wounds anyone in my home. Call the police, then huddle in the basement with a clear line of fire at the exterior basement entrance and remain on line with dispatcher. Put wife and son in bathtub. If Kiler arrives before police, he has to break in through the basement door to the outside or the upstairs, and then come down the interior stairs. I see him before he sees me. I also am pretty sure I won’t shoot a responding officer that way. Can you explain what factors you believe would thwart me? All I have to do is survive until the police arrive. They might not make ten minutes, but they’re going to be there in fifteen for sure. ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/53 "2015-08-10T16:03:30Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I’m from the UK, so I actually don’t believe the nutjob is armed. And I’d guess that if he were, and you defended yourself you’d both be locked up. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/54 "2015-08-10T16:12:13Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > And I’d guess that if he were, and you defended yourself you’d both be locked up. No, because you are allowed to defend yourself. The cases where people have had legal cases against them have pretty much been because they shot someone running away, either that or having an unlicenced firearm. The law doesn’t consider that “defending yourself”. But the point remains, he’s highly unlikely to have a gun and you won’t have one either. Me? I’d just lock the door and call the police. I live in a flat a couple of floors up with one entrance, a steel-centred “security door”. I am confident that the Police would arrive in time and he would not be able to get in anyway. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/55 "2015-08-10T17:07:04Z")
Wait! I fully agree with the ‘call the cops’ sentiment. But what exactly are we expecting the police to do? If the nutter is running around my house waving his gun and screaming threats, or has smashed down my door or window and made it clear that a felonious entry has occurred, the police can surely act. But what if the nutter is simply sitting in his (legally) parked car? Or even just strolling down my street? Do my suspicions, based on some phone call from a friend that I then transmitted in a call to the police really constitute an ‘articulable suspicion’ that cops could act on? If the nutter is rational and controlled enough to secret the gun and act like a law abiding citizen (assuming s/he is white) I’m guessing that, absent a clear threat or equally clear illegal entry, the cops will have to go off about other business after some interval. Leaving the nutter and me at square one. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/56 "2015-08-10T17:12:37Z")
There’s no reason the police can’t ask for identification, or on the basis of a credible threat search the person’s car. Discovery of a loaded firearm would be grounds for demanding he produce a CCW permit where one is required, and lacking one would be grounds for arrest. Random Nutjob might have a prior record. He may re-evaluate because now he is known to the police. You don’t know what the police will be able to do. That’s why you call them and leave it in their hands. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/57 "2015-08-10T17:17:11Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I’d have to double think calling the police. I’d be armed, and, with my experience calling the police, I’d be downright afraid that they would shoot me. My gf doesn’t live with me, so, I don’t mind an OK Corral scenario, but, I’m not going to invite other people to shoot at me. In my past, a guy once tried to break into my house at 1 am through the sliding-glass door. I had hollered and told him I was armed. He kept trying to open the door. When I called the police, I asked the 911 operator to let the responding officer know that I have a firearm. Had no issues. The 911 operator told me exactly when the officer was knocking on my door. I put the firearm on the kitchen counter and answered, showed it to him. The cop later told me he’d rather respond to that situation than to one with someone injured or dead. YMMV based on location and (unfairly) your gender. This occurred in Florida. Things might go down differently elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/58 "2015-08-10T17:24:06Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Teach him what? Where to get good Mexican food and excellent tortellini, not to mention handmade chocolates and pretty good falafel? > > Or where to hear excellent music? Purchase reasonably priced original art and reproductions? Take a pleasant walk around historic sites (less than 200 years old, but still)? Hear at least three different languages? Sorry, that was a joke that didn’t work well. When I moved the the metro West area, people made Lowell sound like a suburb of _Escape from New York_. I moved to a place not far from the hospital last year and quite like it. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/59 "2015-08-10T17:24:16Z")
I forgot to add what I’d actually do, and that would be to walk to the police station up the road. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/60 "2015-08-10T17:29:27Z")
First we’ll have to see if he gets in my ‘secure’ building. Haha. Might have to go around it to find one of the doors commonly propped open. I’ll have called 911 immediately, of course. Then I’ll have loaded up both my shotgun and my .357 and be lying on the floor (in case he decides to just aerate the entire apartment) in the kitchen, just around the corner from the door (and shielded by the stove and fridge). If I was an internet tough guy, I wouldn’t call the cops, I’d go stand in the locking storage room down the hall and slightly around a corner until I heard him trying to break in, then I’d step out guns blazing. But I’m not that full of myself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424.md?page=4)