# A vengeful nutjob with a gun is coming for you RIGHT NOW. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424 "2015-08-10T03:40:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/81 "2015-08-11T02:00:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Armed, and with ten minutes warning, against one guy with a handgun? Virtually 100%, minus a tiny epsilon, that I can stop him before he kills or wounds anyone in my home. > > Call the police, then huddle in the basement with a clear line of fire at the exterior basement entrance and remain on line with dispatcher. Put wife and son in bathtub. If Kiler arrives before police, he has to break in through the basement door to the outside or the upstairs, and then come down the interior stairs. I see him before he sees me. > > I also am pretty sure I won’t shoot a responding officer that way. > > Can you explain what factors you believe would thwart me? All I have to do is survive until the police arrive. They might not make ten minutes, but they’re going to be there in fifteen for sure. If he’s wearing body armour? If he gets off a “lucky” shot? If it proves harder than you expect to kill someone? If you have “no option” I like your plan - if you can safely avoid a confrontation altogether - why not? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/82 "2015-08-11T02:04:52Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > He has acquired a gun? It is simple then. Based on what I have learned at this board, all I have to do is wait. Somebody will steal the gun from him and possibly kill him with it. Or, he may shoot himself with it. Or, it may just spontaneously go off on it own and kill him. Really, he has already sealed his own doom. I suspect we disagree about gun policy; I still think that was really funny. > [@Ravenman](#): > > GTFO of the house. No question. There’s all sorts of doors and windows he could sneak in or force open, and what if the police are dealing with six other maniacal killers at the same time and I simply have to wait my turn? You’re from Baltimore, aren’t you? I’m not dissing you or Baltimore, mind, but it takes a certain East Coast inner city frame of mind to come up with that scenario; I bet even in Detroit they only imagine **five** killers, and they’re not even all that maniacal. > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Well, the tipster said the guy was 10 minutes away and that’s not a lot of time to get out of my pajamas … Joking aside, everyone should be able to get out of the house with all necessary pets, children, cash, and credit cards in about three minutes when the smoke or CO or Insane Stalker alarms goes off. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/83 "2015-08-11T02:19:22Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Sorry, that was a joke that didn’t work well. When I moved the the metro West area, people made Lowell sound like a suburb of _Escape from New York_. I moved to a place not far from the hospital last year and quite like it. Now I feel all guilty, because if you had said _ **Lawrence** _, I would have started sharing tips on which streets were best. (The tortellini is at Tre Monte, the falafel at The Market on Market Street AND that new place on Merrimack, and just follow the mariachi for the Mexican. See you at the Folk Festival next year. We can discuss the American Labor Movement. Bread and Roses.) ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/84 "2015-08-11T03:39:16Z")
Get in my car, call 911, and drive like a bat out of hell to the Police Department. Not much else I COULD do. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/85 "2015-08-11T05:29:34Z")
I could wait to shoot him but who on their right mind wants that trouble? Cops, news anchors, taking someone’s life, brains splattered in the carpet, his brother or his son turning this into a Hatfield-McCoy situation. Fuck all that, I’ve got work tomorrow. I’m not stopping my life for the next month just to prove what a badass I am. I call the cops as I drive away. I can’t think of anywhere better to drive than to the police station since they’ll probably wanna talk anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/86 "2015-08-11T06:12:36Z")
I guess I don’t understand the people who will calmly get their gun and wait in ambush for the killer. And expect that when the killer shows up, they’ll shoot that yellow-bellied varmint between his eyes, and the story will be over. You’re not that good. Even people who shoot a lot often can’t function effectively in a real firefight. I mean, yes, of course there really are ice-cold killers who can calmly assess the situation and accurately place the right number of bullets exactly where they need to be. Most people aren’t that sort of person, and you don’t really know how you’ll react unless you’ve got some practice in that sort of situation. And if you’re regularly finding yourself calmly gunning down maniacs with guns who’ve come to kill you, then well, maybe you should sit down and take a good look at your life and how you ended up here. I guess I’ve read too many viking sagas, because whenever someone barricaded themselves in their house, the response of the attackers was invariably to set the house on fire, then pick off the escapees piecemeal. And those Norse outlaws didn’t even have jerry cans full of gasoline. The difference between me and an Icelandic farmer is that I’ve got a car. I mean, if I had a gun, I’d surely grab my gun before I jumped in my car and got the fuck out of there. But how is the maniac supposed to find you if you’re not at home? In ten minutes you can be miles away, and it’s not like he can follow your horse’s hoofprints. Get a few miles away, pull into a well-lighted well-populated parking lot, and call the cops. Make sure your gun, if you have one, is within reaching distance. But don’t focus on the gun, focus on the fact that you are in a car. If you see your sworn enemy, you’ve already got a deadly weapon. And a way to escape. If you see a guy who wants to shoot you, do you pull out your gun and shoot it out with him, or do you drive away from the maniac? Get away from the maniac is my answer. Maniacs are invariably better at violence than normal people. Guys who think it’s a good idea to grab a gun and head to someone’s house and shoot them in the face are not people you want to be trading shots with. I guarantee he cannot drive after you and accurately shoot at you. Yes, if you’re trapped and there’s no alternative then by all means open up with whatever firearms are handy and try to put some holes in him before you die. You might get lucky. But getting into a firefight with a maniac is by definition a bad idea. You should, you know, avoid stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/87 "2015-08-11T11:38:20Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Clearly, those of you clinging to the idea of using a gun of your own just don’t get it. The same guy who stole the nutjob’s gun and killed him with it will do the same thing to you. Now that guy has two guns and any crimes he commits with them are YOUR fault. If he’s killed me, I think I’ve been punished. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/88 "2015-08-11T12:58:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Imagine that some time ago you inadvertently pissed off a random nutjob who swore to get you eventually, though never specifying how. Now your phone rings, and a person you know well and trust implicitly tells you the nutjob has acquired a Glock 19 and is headed to your home to vaccinate ye against oxygen. From what your friend tells you, the nutjob is 10 minutes away. > > What is your response? Do you run for cover, or hunker down in your house? Do you trust your local police to help you, or do you consider yourself on your own? I stay at home. Good luck getting past the three layers of heavy steel security gates and spikes between me and the outside world, nutjob. The armed response team will be with you shortly (who needs police, when you have private Galil-armed security one button-press away?). Middle-class South African houses are _designed_ with well-armed home invasion in mind. One sucker with a pop gun isn’t getting anywhere near me. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/89 "2015-08-11T15:45:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I stay at home. Good luck getting past the three layers of heavy steel security gates and spikes between me and the outside world, nutjob. The armed response team will be with you shortly (who needs police, when you have private Galil-armed security one button-press away?). But if the police end up shooting and killing the nutjob, won’t you be complicit in their actions, on account of having called them to defend you? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/90 "2015-08-11T16:34:32Z")
I’m going to put an electric charcoal starter over the front door knob, so when they grab it to come in, their hand gets burnt. Then I am going to hang a heavy paint can from the upstairs rail so I can swing it down when they come in and hit them in the face. Then I will drive long nails up through the stairs so they will step on them and impale their feet. I’ve got a million traps like that, I’ll show those guys I am not one to fuck with. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/91 "2015-08-11T16:58:50Z")
Load shotgun while calling 911. Stay on the line hunkered down until the police arrive and we’ve talked through me coming out. The last thing I want is a meeting engagement while I’m leaving if the estimate of his arrival is off. I’d rather pick a defensible location for a hasty defense. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/92 "2015-08-12T00:42:07Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > If he’s wearing body armour? > > If he gets off a “lucky” shot? > > If it proves harder than you expect to kill someone? > > If you have “no option” I like your plan - if you can safely avoid a confrontation altogether - why not? My plan is intended to avoid a confrontation. I live near the end of a long cul de sac. There are two ways to drive out. If he’s 10 minutes out when I get the warning, there’s basically a 50/50 chance that by the time I have wife and kid in car zooming away, our car will pass his on the road, and I did not order the armored option. It is safer to hide in my home, taking advantage of the cover and concealment it provides, and wait for the police to save the day. But it would be foolish to not plan for the contingency in which he arrives first. I have a shotgun with 0000 buckshot. His body armor at that range may possibly protect his torso but not his head. I’m covered and concealed. He might get off a lucky shot, I suppose, but I asked why there was such confidence my plan would fail. If the attempted answer is, “He might get off a lucky shot,” then I expect you to see why this is not responsive. And while I am certain killing another human being would be horrible, I am also unwilling to die to avoid it. I believe my answer gives me, my family, and my assailant the best chance or surviving, while prioritizing our lives over his. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Kimbosquee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/45deac/32.png) [@Kimbosquee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimbosquee)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/93 "2015-08-12T00:50:07Z")
My initial reaction would be to call the police, explain to them the situation and that I won’t be there, then leave the house and perhaps hide at a relative’s. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/94 "2015-08-12T01:23:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’ve got to say, I’m rather shocked that so many folks are answering that they would stay at home. Ok, here’s the thing and no, not going to bother Skald for additional info. You know he’s coming, but what if he’s closer than that? Moving from door to car you are totally exposed & vulnerable. If you are on the street when he drives down, he could ram you and pop you full of holes before the airbag deflates in your car (car windows are zero protection) Or… maybe he let your friend make that call and he has someone already in place with a nice sniper perch with a clear line of sight to your car. A light pop… you drop… and the sniper puts away his rifle, drops the bag into his trunk, and calmly drives away. People are at their most vulnerable when they are in transit and if this person has killing you in mind, getting you out in the open is EXACTLY what they’ll try to do. So I’d shelter in place. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/95 "2015-08-12T01:30:53Z")
You’re totally right: if you leave, you are vulnerable while leaving. But I’m thinking that this vulnerability pales in comparison to the many more risks of staying. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/96 "2015-08-12T01:35:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You’re totally right: if you leave, you are vulnerable while leaving. But I’m thinking that this vulnerability pales in comparison to the many more risks of staying. Can you specify these risks? The police are coming, after all. I only need to protect myself until they arrive. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/97 "2015-08-12T01:39:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My plan is intended to avoid a confrontation. I live near the end of a long cul de sac. There are two ways to drive out. If he’s 10 minutes out when I get the warning, there’s basically a 50/50 chance that by the time I have wife and kid in car zooming away, our car will pass his on the road, and I did not order the armored option. > > It is safer to hide in my home, taking advantage of the cover and concealment it provides, and wait for the police to save the day. But it would be foolish to not plan for the contingency in which he arrives first. > > I have a shotgun with 0000 buckshot. His body armor at that range may possibly protect his torso but not his head. > > I’m covered and concealed. He might get off a lucky shot, I suppose, but I asked why there was such confidence my plan would fail. If the attempted answer is, “He might get off a lucky shot,” then I expect you to see why this is not responsive. > > And while I am certain killing another human being would be horrible, I am also unwilling to die to avoid it. I believe my answer gives me, my family, and my assailant the best chance or surviving, while prioritizing our lives over his. > > Do you disagree? No I don’t. Where my resistance comes from is viewing the “Shootout at the OK Corral” as the **first option**. If it is the last option - then so be it, get you gun and do the necessary, and I’ll sincerely wish you the very best of luck in stopping the maniac. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/98 "2015-08-12T01:47:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Can you specify these risks? The police are coming, after all. I only need to protect myself until they arrive. I can think of one unfortunate possibility. You’ve called the police and told them that an armed and dangerous man is coming to your address. The police presumably respond by sending a few units who are forewarned to expect an armed and dangerous person attempting a home invasion. And when they arrive they do in fact see an armed person hiding inside your house. It’s not too difficult to imagine a police officer reacting too quickly and a tragic outcome occurring. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/99 "2015-08-12T01:54:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I can think of one unfortunate possibility. You’ve called the police and told them that an armed and dangerous man is coming to your address. The police presumably respond by sending a few units who are forewarned to expect an armed and dangerous person attempting a home invasion. And when they arrive they do in fact see an armed person hiding inside your house. > > It’s not too difficult to imagine a police officer reacting too quickly and a tragic outcome occurring. I think if you tell the dispatcher that you yourself are armed (but not dangerous) with a legally-owned firearm, the dispatcher relays that to the responding units, and they take that into consideration in the response. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/100 "2015-08-12T02:02:03Z")
I’m still worried about the way this plays out beyond that “10 minutes”, if indeed that is accurate at all. I can and would call the cops, but unless the nutter does something obviously threatening, they can’t stop him. Being in my neighborhood isn’t a crime. Neither is possessing a firearm, for a non-felon in many, many jurisdictions. So how long can I stay gone? And how long can the cops wait around for him to show, and perform an illegal act? At some point I’m gonna be home, nutter will show up, and cops will be elsewhere. That’s when I’d best be prepared, in that inside room, peeking at the locked door from behind a visual barrier (nothing in my house is actually going to stop a bullet, but I don’t have to show myself before the intruder paints himself as a target) with a gun or two at hand. No, I’m not looking forward to shooting someone. If I’m lucky the cops will arrive while he’s breaking into my house but before he gets into my inner sanctum. Then at least they have cause to arrest him. But if the threat is real, I’d be foolish to depend entirely on police protection. In a free society, we can only punish someone for their actions, not their intended actions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424.md?page=6)