# A vengeful nutjob with a gun is coming for you RIGHT NOW. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424 "2015-08-10T03:40:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/121 "2015-08-13T00:09:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I hope they don’t ask me to make sure he’s really dead. I’m lovin’ it. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/122 "2015-08-13T00:22:39Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > In my past, a guy once tried to break into my house at 1 am through the sliding-glass door. I had hollered and told him I was armed. He kept trying to open the door. > > When I called the police, I asked the 911 operator to let the responding officer know that I have a firearm. > > Had no issues. The 911 operator told me exactly when the officer was knocking on my door. I put the firearm on the kitchen counter and answered, showed it to him. > > The cop later told me he’d rather respond to that situation than to one with someone injured or dead. > > YMMV based on location and (unfairly) your gender. This occurred in Florida. Things might go down differently elsewhere. MM did V. The 911 operator may relay the message that I am armed properly, but, in the case involving my GFs house, the cops didn’t even fucking know about my weapon, after I had told the operator. The police who showed up were the ones that received the call about the tall white male carrying a weapon (handsomeharry, by name.) They said that they had not heard about any break-in. The cops who came about her break-in showed up 20 minutes later. They said that they had not heard anything about an armed man. I can’t risk my life on the 911 operator receiving my message clearly and, then, relaying it clearly to the responding officers. They will hear “…X at X address; suspect…gun…” and they will be enroute. They will not hear “handsomeharry is the tall white man, 58, wearing X…” and bother to separate that in their minds. They will think/hear “…white…man…gun involved…” They will shoot the first gun wielding person they see. And, you know as well as I that the PD will not even have to pay my survivors for ‘wrongful death’ because I had a gun. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/123 "2015-08-13T00:29:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I do a fair amount of shooting - enough to know that my ability to knock down an Ivan at 300 yards does not confer upon me combat skills. But you raise a fair point about your shooting skills: if police officers miss roughly half their shots in shootouts, do you believe that in this scenario that you are better prepared than when a police officer fires his gun? Home defense and a police shooting/self defense are not even comparable. Police have certain protocols in a stop that the homeowner defending himself doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/124 "2015-08-13T00:35:35Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO??!!! I’d call the cops. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/125 "2015-08-13T00:39:40Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > He has acquired a gun? It is simple then. Based on what I have learned at this board, all I have to do is wait. Somebody will steal the gun from him and possibly kill him with it. Or, he may shoot himself with it. Or, it may just spontaneously go off on it own and kill him. Really, he has already sealed his own doom. This here is primo stuff! ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/126 "2015-08-13T00:41:19Z")
1, Call the cops. 2. Call all my neighbors and tell them an insane man is coming with a gun to kill me and they need to either a. hide, or b. find a good sniper position. c. retreat to a place where I’m unlikely to get caught in the cross fire. d. carrying with me the necessary household chemicals to prepare a deadly gas + my emergency air tank left over from scuba e. Wait. I am a delicate and fragile flower, it’s unlikely that I’m going to be identified by the police as the shooter, still I prefer not to be in the house with guns in my hand. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/127 "2015-08-13T00:54:16Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Is no-one else going to address this? I’m pretty sure this would be illegal even in Florida, but I’m from Massachusetts, where most things are. My head was already ticking through tactical considerations and I didn’t read that fully. While IANAL I have a really hard time seeing a reasonable justification that I feared for my life when they were going away from me and in to the house. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/128 "2015-08-13T08:57:38Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > This here is primo stuff! To quote GLaDOS, it would be funny if it weren’t so sad. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/129 "2015-08-13T11:17:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > But if the police end up shooting and killing the nutjob, won’t you be complicit in their actions, on account of having called them to defend you? I didn’t say _I_ would be doing the button-pressing. My own panic alarm only goes to the Emergency Services, I’m not going to summon them into a firefight. But this is South Africa, you don’t get to walk down a suburban street, armed, without 3 different armed security companies and the police getting up in your business in 3 minutes flat (I’ve seen this in action more than once) and I live opposite a secured building with CCTV and (unarmed) guards patrolling. I meant to indicate _someone_ would be pressing that button, sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I mean, I _would_ call the police, but the way I see it, I’m not ordering them to take lethal action, they have nonlethal means at their disposal. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/130 "2015-08-13T11:42:00Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t own any guns for self defense, but it seems to me the worst way to use one is to wait for someone in the house where they expect you to be. Why not just take your rifle and hide in the yard with a view of the front door? Pick him off from hiding when he tries to enter the house. I don’t know if it matters to the hypothetical, but doing so would get you a murder/attempted murder charge. Maybe manslaughter. > [@Marion\_Wormer](#): > > …carrying with me the necessary household chemicals to prepare a deadly gas 3 bean salad and broccoli works well in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/131 "2015-08-13T12:04:27Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Is no-one else going to address this? I’m pretty sure this would be illegal even in Florida, but I’m from Massachusetts, where most things are. > [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > I don’t know if it matters to the hypothetical, but doing so would get you a murder/attempted murder charge. Maybe manslaughter. Maybe I’m misinformed, but in most jurisdictions, if an armed stranger with murderous intent trespasses on my property and tries to enter my house, and I have a reasonable fear for my life, I can respond with deadly force. I don’t think most states require me to look him in the eye, or wait until he shoots first. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/132 "2015-08-13T12:27:41Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > We recently had a meeting at work to plan what we would do if we were to have a gunman enter our offices. After a great deal of discussion, it was decided to provide the receptionist with a panic button that she was to use to alert the office to the gunman’s presence. Those of us in the offices were advised to turn off our lights and shelter under our desks. This seems logical, as a gunman would be less likely to shoot into an unoccupied office. But our poor receptionist was just expected to stay at her position and attempt to dissuade the gunman from entering the offices area. Essentially, this means sacrificing her so that others have time to find shelter. > > I have significant issues with this, although at this point I don’t have a better solution. We are on the top floor of our building and if the gunman is in our offices, he has already bypassed building security. The plan will never work, if course, because bof the sacrifice-the-receptionist part. Only a suicidal receptionist will go along with it, and such a person won’t bother with the other elements. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/133 "2015-08-13T13:44:42Z")
I’d be waiting on my porch to have a heart-to-heart talk with the gunman. or Grab my gun. Go next door to the neighbor’s. Pop open a brew. Make bets on who has the best grouping, closest to the heart, closest to the balls, eye shots etc. Pay off betting debts as neighbor has a very accurate laser site. call police ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/134 "2015-08-13T15:18:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Maybe I’m misinformed, but in most jurisdictions, if an armed stranger with murderous intent trespasses on my property and tries to enter my house, **and I have a reasonable fear for my life** , You’re hiding somewhere outside the house in your plan. The homicidal intruder obviously hasn’t even seen you since he’s breaking in to the house. He’s in the process of going further away from you by entering the house. That’s a harder case to justify reasonable fear in front of a jury of your peers. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/135 "2015-08-13T16:21:59Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > You’re hiding somewhere outside the house in your plan. The homicidal intruder obviously hasn’t even seen you since he’s breaking in to the house. He’s in the process of going further away from you by entering the house. That’s a harder case to justify reasonable fear in front of a jury of your peers. Plus, what if he shoots the FIOS salesman by mistake? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/136 "2015-08-13T16:32:36Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > You’re hiding somewhere outside the house in your plan. The homicidal intruder obviously hasn’t even seen you since he’s breaking in to the house. He’s in the process of going further away from you by entering the house. That’s a harder case to justify reasonable fear in front of a jury of your peers. Armed with a rifle and a GoPro you shout his name…he turns and points his gun at you…reasonable fear. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/137 "2015-08-13T16:40:04Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > You’re hiding somewhere outside the house in your plan. The homicidal intruder obviously hasn’t even seen you since he’s breaking in to the house. He’s in the process of going further away from you by entering the house. That’s a harder case to justify reasonable fear in front of a jury of your peers. Apparently, in many jurisdictions, self defense is an affirmative defense and the prosecutor has to prove I was not in reasonable fear of my life. I don’t have to prove anything. Insane, right? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/138 "2015-08-13T17:02:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > He has acquired a gun? It is simple then. Based on what I have learned at this board, all I have to do is wait. Somebody will steal the gun from him and possibly kill him with it. Or, he may shoot himself with it. Or, it may just spontaneously go off on it own and kill him. Really, he has already sealed his own doom. To offer the opposite viewpoint: I own a gun. My gun creates an aura around me, my family, and my property that renders them invulnerable from harm. When the criminal arrives at my home he will perceive that he is helpless before my gun’s might and will surrender himself to the legal authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/139 "2015-08-13T17:04:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Apparently, in many jurisdictions, self defense is an affirmative defense and the prosecutor has to prove I was not in reasonable fear of my life. I don’t have to prove anything. Insane, right? “Affirmative defense” means that YOU have to prove what you’re claiming, not that the prosecutor has to disprove it. A defendant claiming self-sefense has shifted the burden of proof to himself, since he necessarily cedes that he committed the action he is accused of. [I"ll cite Wikipedia, as I haven’t been sufficiently hypocritical this month.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_defense#Burden_of_proof) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424/140 "2015-08-13T17:06:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Apparently, in many jurisdictions, self defense is an affirmative defense and the prosecutor has to prove I was not in reasonable fear of my life. I don’t have to prove anything. Insane, right? In some. In others you have a duty to retreat if possible. However, if you go looking for him, this is NOT self-defense. It’s murder. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vengeful-nutjob-with-a-gun-is-coming-for-you-right-now/727424.md?page=8)