# "A vicious \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 11, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937 "2010-08-11T15:04:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/21 "2010-08-11T16:56:37Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > A circle is a shape. I’ve never understood how it can be vicious. > > A cycle is a pattern of repeated actions or causes-and-effects. That shit can ruin your day. In business parlance, there is no such thing as a vicious circle - there are only vicious cycles (a repeating, reinforcing set of actions that lead to destruction of value) and a virtuous cycle which is the same thing but value-creating. What’s hilarious is that I went to check Wikipedia and it supports my definitions…but uses the word [circle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuous_circle_and_vicious_circle). Again, from a business and business consulting standpoint, the standard phrasing is cycle… \*\*Asimovian \*\*- I am with you; I am surprised this is even a question - a circle is a closed loop; a cycle is a repeating sequence of events that can get vicious or virtuous. But my look at wiki was enough for me to pause and realize that the world is a funny place… ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/22 "2010-08-11T16:58:00Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Also you can do that joke where you form your finger and thumb into a circle and make it go “raaar”, then say “what’s that?” This is what I learned from this thread! ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/23 "2010-08-11T16:59:05Z")
Knid. No, wait, that’s _vermicious_. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/24 "2010-08-11T17:20:35Z")
It’s _definitely_ “circle.” **Freddy the Pig** was right, it’s circle as metaphor for recurring cycle. Saying “cycle” is probably a result of [false etymology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_etymology) (sometimes confused with folk etymology). The Gregg Reference Manual is blunt and to the point: > [@](#): > > The correct form is _vicious circle_ ( **NOT:** vicious cycle.) ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/25 "2010-08-11T17:22:13Z")
Caesar. He vicied the living daylights out of the Gauls. ---
**Author:** ![Emily\_Litella](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emily_litella/32/3370_2.png) [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/26 "2010-08-11T17:23:35Z")
Viscious material, as Carl in VanHelsing would tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/27 "2010-08-11T17:30:55Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > A circle is a shape. I’ve never understood how it can be vicious. > > A cycle is a pattern of repeated actions or causes-and-effects. That shit can ruin your day. That’s why I say “cycle.” ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/28 "2010-08-11T17:36:53Z")
A vicious climb - cycle speakingly ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/29 "2010-08-11T17:38:09Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > It’s _definitely_ “circle.” **Freddy the Pig** was right, it’s circle as metaphor for recurring cycle. Saying “cycle” is probably a result of [false etymology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_etymology) (sometimes confused with folk etymology). > > The Gregg Reference Manual is blunt and to the point: > > > [@](#): > > > > The correct form is _vicious circle_ ( **NOT:** vicious cycle.) Merriam-Webster agrees. [Vicious circle](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vicious%20circle) is the original form, dating to 1792. M-W has no separate entry for “vicious cycle,” noting only that it is an alternative for vicious circle. ["Circle"](http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/circle)is also can be used as a synonym for “cycle”: > [@](#): > > 4 a series of events or actions that repeat themselves regularly and in the same order \ — see cycle 1 There is no logical discrepancy in using “circle” here instead of “cycle.” ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/30 "2010-08-11T17:53:52Z")
Well fight my ignorance. Now - I will still use cycle, but I will understand the implications of doing so 😉 I still can’t conflate a downward spiral with a “circle” - but clearly that is my problem… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/31 "2010-08-11T17:57:00Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > It’s definitely “vicious circle”. Anyone who thinks it is “vicious cycle” has misunderstood someone saying “vicious circle” in a strong New Jersey accent. Here’s where I first heard it. And revisiting the quote, no wonder I got confused: “We are trapped in a vicious circle of economic, intellectual, social and political death. Inferior housing, inferior education which in turn leads to inferior jobs. We spend a lifetime in this vicious circle. Or in this vicious cycle going in circles. Giving birth to children who see no hope for the future but to follow our miserable footsteps.” -Malcolm X, 1963. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/32 "2010-08-11T18:40:10Z")
FWIW, the expression even in Japanese is 悪循環 _akujunkan_, which could be translated overly literally as “evil sequential ring/circle.” \*Not \*cycle. We learned it for a unit that dealt with gift-giving in Japanese culture. It’s quite possibily my favorite word I was ever officially assigned to learn, aside from 漂流者 _hyouryuusha_, “a person who goes adrift on the ocean,” which is not only fabulous but nigh-useless in ordinary conversation. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/33 "2010-08-11T19:14:45Z")
I have never heard ‘circle’ until this thread. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/34 "2010-08-11T19:19:51Z")
It’s cycle, god dammit. What’s wrong with you people? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/35 "2010-08-11T19:36:36Z")
“Will it go Round in Cycles?” “Will the Cycle be Unbroken?” “A Cycle of Friends” “The Inner Cycle” “Family Cycle” “The Mystic Cycle” “Cycle K” ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/36 "2010-08-11T19:37:41Z")
Lion. (also, it’s circle, not cycle) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/37 "2010-08-11T19:41:29Z")
Oh dear. Running only about 56% literate right now. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/38 "2010-08-11T20:01:37Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > “Will the Cycle be Unbroken?” This one didn’t faze me, actually. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/39 "2010-08-11T20:07:29Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Oh dear. Running only about 56% literate right now. I am enjoying the discussion and feeling like I am learning stuff, but really don’t need the condescension. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937/40 "2010-08-11T20:09:18Z")
[http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en\_GB&word1=vicious+circle&word2=vicious+cycle](http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=vicious+circle&word2=vicious+cycle) Cycle wins the google fight [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-vicious-________/549937.md?page=3)