# "A War We Just Might Win" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749 "2007-07-31T00:32:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/341 "2007-08-27T18:31:14Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] As to the second, coming as it does from the strictly non-partisan and unbiased _Weekly Standard_, there may be another reason that the _New York Times_ declined to publish, aside from its long-standing commitment to the destruction of everything that is good and holy. I point to these figures… [/QUOTE] It was published in the Weekly Standard after the New York Times refused to print it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/342 "2007-08-27T18:33:41Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Lets just say that these numbers are open to some criticism. May I assume that you are already entirely aware of those criticisms? [/QUOTE] Snowfall in my area has diminished by 100% over the past six months. Pine trees in the house, which used to be a notable condition, have been absent as well during that time. There has been a dramatic drop-off in red and white hearts on cards and candies around here as well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/343 "2007-08-27T18:36:18Z")
[QUOTE=Sam] It was published in the Weekly Standard after the New York Times refused to print it. [/QUOTE] Yes, **Sam** , I know, you mentioned that. Made rather a point of it, or, more accuratly, an innuendo. To the effect that to hear “both sides of the story”, which is to suggest “the truth”, one must turn to the _Weekly Standard_. Shall we bore the Gentle Reader to tears with a comprehensive litany of the lies, balderdash and tommyrot that have been issued from that august publication? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/344 "2007-08-27T18:51:30Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Lets just say that these numbers are open to some criticism. May I assume that you are already entirely aware of those criticisms? [/QUOTE] To provide a less snarky response to this logical error, does anyone have a graph of violence in Iraq by month, with separate lines for each year? I think that superimposing the years on one another would make it eminently clear to anyone that the typical seasonal changes can’t be pointed to as an indicator of specific change from this past winter to this summer. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/345 "2007-08-27T19:15:55Z")
Several. Check the archives at ThinkProgress, Eschaton, etc. I would run and fetch them for you, but I’m lazy and easily…ooh! shiny! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/346 "2007-08-27T19:21:46Z")
Oooopsie! [**Iraq Sunni Arabs say deal won’t end boycott**](http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2007-08-27T072120Z_01_YAT713362_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAQ-COL.XML) Double ooopsie! [**Iraq Body Count Running at Double Pace**](http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6875825,00.html) > [@](#): > > This year’s U.S. troop buildup has succeeded in bringing violence in Baghdad down from peak levels, but **the death toll from sectarian attacks around the country is running nearly double the pace from a year ago.** > > \ > > \*\*\*\*\* **Iraq is suffering about double the number of war-related deaths throughout the country compared with last year - an average daily toll of 33 in 2006, and 62 so far this year.** > > \*\*\*\*\* **Nearly 1,000 more people have been killed in violence across Iraq in the first eight months of this year than in all of 2006. So far this year, about 14,800 people have died in war-related attacks and sectarian murders. AP reporting accounted for 13,811 deaths in 2006. The United Nations and other sources placed the 2006 toll far higher.** > > \*\*\*\*\* Baghdad has gone from representing 76 percent of all civilian and police war-related deaths in Iraq in January to 52 percent in July, bringing it back to the same spot it was roughly a year ago.\*\* > > \*\*\*\*\* **According to the Iraqi Red Crescent Organization, the number of displaced Iraqis has more than doubled since the start of the year, from 447,337 on Jan. 1 to 1.14 million on July 31**. – my highlights. Sorry to harsh your mellow with the pungent smell of reality reality, **Sam**. But you know what a mean lefty SOB I am. I leave “subtle” to my much better suited comrades. * * * [QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] To provide a less snarky response to this logical error, does anyone have a graph of violence in Iraq by month, with separate lines for each year? I think that superimposing the years on one another would make it eminently clear to anyone that the typical seasonal changes can’t be pointed to as an indicator of specific change from this past winter to this summer. [/QUOTE] These might help give you a fairly good picture: [**The Surge by the Numbers**](http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=26050) [**Iraq violence: monitoring the surge**](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6960134.stm) [**Iraq Body Count Running at Double Pace**](http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story.jsp?floc=DC-headline&sc=1107&idq=/ff/story/0001/20070825/1435052408.htm) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/347 "2007-08-27T19:28:19Z")
And, of course, I can always depend on good ol’ **Red**! My dawg! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/348 "2007-08-27T19:38:00Z")
You may find this one helpful as well as it is quite detailed: [**Is the Surge Working? Data Suggest “No”**](http://uspolitics.about.com/b/a/208188.htm) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/349 "2007-08-27T19:42:24Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] And, of course, I can always depend on good ol’ **Red**! My dawg! [/QUOTE] A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. I do what I can to help. Woof! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/350 "2007-08-27T19:47:08Z")
**Sic 'em!** ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/351 "2007-08-29T01:17:55Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] [Shia, Sunni and Kurdish parties achieve consensus](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2157006,00.html) [/QUOTE] Of course, the Shi’ites can’t even “achieve consensus” amongst themselves, since it appears that at least three different Shi’ite groups are fighting for control of Basra and environs. I hope I don’t need to provide a cite, since this has been widely covered in the news, and I’m feeling lazy right now. And does anyone speak for all or even most of the Sunnis anyway? The fragmentation of Sunni insurgent groups is old news. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749/352 "2007-08-29T03:01:24Z")
[No Worries](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070828/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_iraq_5;_ylt=AqSa.YpWessggBB2WCYXgDoE1vAI): > [@](#): > > Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad boldly declared Tuesday that U.S. political influence in Iraq is “collapsing rapidly” and said his government is ready to help fill any power vacuum. Ahmadinejad’s got Bush’s back. We can’t lose! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-war-we-just-might-win/413749.md?page=17)