# A warning, for what exactly? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 5, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884 "2016-08-05T21:51:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/21 "2016-08-06T22:11:06Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > He’s right, **TGU**. It’s not an argument ad populum _ **if** _ it’s something defined by the reaction of the masses in and of itself. (my emphasis) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/22 "2016-08-06T22:15:16Z")
Rather, it is an argument ad populum but that’s not a fallacy in this case. I’m not really that pedantic, but if I don’t make that point y’all will go 10 rounds. The Great Unwashed, it’s being a jerk because you aren’t commenting on the argument, you’re characterizing the poster in a certain way–as a little girl, undeserving of respect. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/23 "2016-08-06T22:18:02Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Rather, it is an argument ad populum but that’s not a fallacy in this case. > > I’m not really that pedantic, but if I don’t make that point y’all will go 10 rounds. > > The Great Unwashed, it’s being a jerk because you aren’t commenting on the argument, you’re characterizing the poster in a certain way–as a little girl, undeserving of respect. Nope, her size and gender were/are unknown to me and in any case would be wholly irreleveant. I was commenting about her ungraceful (disgraceful) exiting of a debate on a slender pretext (that apparently fooled everyone (the jerks)). ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/24 "2016-08-06T22:22:07Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > (my emphasis) Right. And **John Mace** ’s assertion (SFAICT) was that jerkishness is defined in such a way. Which seems reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/25 "2016-08-06T22:33:34Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Right. And **John Mace** ’s assertion (SFAICT) was that jerkishness is defined in such a way. Which seems reasonable. A) His assertion followed his argument: I would call that a juicy rationalization B) The mob, while they might well get to decide who to hang and who to canonize, don’t ever get to dictate what is true and what is false ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/26 "2016-08-06T22:39:42Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > A) His assertion followed his argument: I would call that a juicy rationalization Your assertion here follows your argument. Juicy rationalization? Also, funnily enough, this is ad hominem. > [@](#): > > B) The mob, while they might well get to decide who to hang and who to canonize, don’t ever get to dictate what is true and what is false Wrong. They most certainly get to dictate what is true and what is false as per their own reactions, by their own reactions. The mob can dictate the truth of “The mob says cats are nice!” by saying that they think cats are nice. I can even do that by myself. The statement, “ **Revenant Threshold** says this argument is correct” can be dictated true by me alone, thus; I say this argument is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/27 "2016-08-06T22:46:59Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > Colibri. you twice accused me of being butt-hurt, one of those times after my direct repudiation. You were wrong both times. Your behavior here tends to argue against your denial. > [@](#): > > How is that less jerkful than pointing out the **patently obvious behaviour** of another poster? Especially when that behaviour serves to create a false impression (that they are unable to express themselves NOT because their opinions are contentless or unsupportable, but because of the intolerence or unreasonableness of others. Unless you actually saw **Dangerosa** literally “go off to cry in a corner,” then you are not describing “patently obvious behavior.” You projected a particular behavior on to her, and then chose to describe it a particularly jerkish way. You keep ignoring the fact that you didn’t merely remark on a behavior (whether or not it occurred), you chose to be very obnoxious about it. > [@](#): > > By the way, this is what I consider to be fair-comment: things _true_ and _a propos_. Then by your own standard, your words were not a fair comment. You did not see Dangerosa go off to cry in a corner, and your comment was not appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/28 "2016-08-06T22:48:37Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > Nope, her size and gender were/are unknown to me and in any case would be wholly irreleveant. I was commenting about her ungraceful (disgraceful) exiting of a debate on a slender pretext (that apparently fooled everyone (the jerks)). There was only one jerk in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/29 "2016-08-06T22:52:38Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Wrong. They most certainly get to dictate what is true and what is false as per their own reactions, by their own reactions. The mob can dictate the truth of “The mob says cats are nice!” by saying that they think cats are nice. I self-edited a few lines about “popular” music and whether the sky is “blue” or “green” (you are smart enough to fill in the blanks (no snipe intended)) The mob might well get to dictate that they are offended by or find undesirable X or by Y (but usually by YY) – this does not mean that X or Y (or even YY) is objectively offensive or undesirable. They may even elect idiot leaders to cheer them on in their improbable causes and populist prejudices. Still, none of that gives them any authority over truth. AFAIK, the definition of jerkishness is not defined on these boards by an appeal to the masses. I might be wrong, maybe there’s a mod note somewhere that says JERKISHNESS = WHATEVER FLAVOUR OF IDIOT OPINION OUR MEMBERS SEEM TO HAVE AT THIS MOMENT If I am wrong, I will gladly concede the point. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/30 "2016-08-06T22:52:56Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > B) The mob, while they might well get to decide who to hang and who to canonize, don’t ever get to dictate what is true and what is false Society, by definition, decides what the societal norms of behavior are. So if the consensus is that you behaved like a jerk, then that is true. Beyond that, the mods decide what is and what is not jerkish behavior. Yours clearly was. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/31 "2016-08-06T22:53:40Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > There was only one jerk in that thread. I know, fuck me they are multiplying in this thread, right? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/32 "2016-08-06T22:55:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Society, by definition, decides what the societal norms of behavior are. So if the consensus is that you behaved like a jerk, then that is true. > > Beyond that, the mods decide what is and what is not jerkish behavior. Yours clearly was. The first statement is bollocks, the second tautological. Do keep up. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/33 "2016-08-06T22:56:03Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > I know, fuck me they are multiplying in this thread, right? Not as far as I can see. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/34 "2016-08-06T22:57:56Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > AFAIK, the definition of jerkishness is not defined on these boards by an appeal to the masses. I might be wrong, maybe there’s a mod note somewhere that says > JERKISHNESS = WHATEVER FLAVOUR OF IDIOT OPINION OUR MEMBERS SEEM TO HAVE AT THIS MOMENT From the rules: > [@](#): > > We have one guiding principle: Don’t be a jerk. > > … > > Please remember that you are our guest here, and that we reserve the right to exclude you at our whim, for any or no reason whatsoever. … By registering and using the board you acknowledge this right and agree to abide by our rules and to submit to their interpretation and enforcement by our moderators and editors. > > Rule enforcement is the responsibility of SDMB staff. As I said, the mods decide what is and what isn’t jerkish behavior. Really, that’s all you have to know. > [@](#): > > If I am wrong, I will gladly concede the point. I see no evidence of that happening. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/35 "2016-08-06T22:59:18Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > I know, fuck me they are multiplying in this thread, right? > [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > The first statement is bollocks, the second tautological. Do keep up. **Moderator Note** Keep the discussion civil. Don’t imply that the other posters in this thread are jerks. Further remarks of this kind may be subject to a warning. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/36 "2016-08-06T23:00:39Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Your behavior here tends to argue against your denial. > > Unless you actually saw **Dangerosa** literally “go off to cry in a corner,” then you are not describing “patently obvious behavior.” You projected a particular behavior on to her, and then chose to describe it a particularly jerkish way. You keep ignoring the fact that you didn’t merely remark on a behavior (whether or not it occurred), you chose to be very obnoxious about it. > > Then by your own standard, your words were not a fair comment. You did not see Dangerosa go off to cry in a corner, and your comment was not appropriate. For goodness sake, Dangerosa went off in a huff because I called her on her equivocation. I might have been ever so slightly arch (but considerably less so than a number of posters (including you, bro) have been to me here). What do can we characterise that behaviour? (see my OP for suggestions) What would be a generous (non-jerkish) interpretation of her behaviour? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/37 "2016-08-06T23:03:03Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > I self-edited a few lines about “popular” music and whether the sky is “blue” or “green” (you are smart enough to fill in the blanks (no snipe intended)) > > The mob might well get to dictate that they are offended by or find undesirable X or by Y (but usually by YY) – this does not mean that X or Y (or even YY) is objectively offensive or undesirable. There is no such thing as an objective offensive or undesirable thing or subject. Both are entirely definable by the subjective reactions of others. A claim of offensiveness or of undesireability may be well supported by a show of evidence of people’s reactions, because that is what those things refer to to define them. > [@](#): > > AFAIK, the definition of jerkishness is not defined on these boards by an appeal to the masses. > \ > > If I am wrong, I will gladly concede the point. You’re wrong. Any appeal to jerkishness must be an appeal to the masses, because there is no other place to appeal to but subjective opinion. In this case, that’s the mods, as cosigned by the rest of the board members. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/38 "2016-08-06T23:03:54Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > Keep the discussion civil. Don’t imply that the other posters in this thread are jerks. Further remarks of this kind may be subject to a warning. WOW! Sorry, you call me a jerk, and others pile on, that’s fine. But if I have the temerity to suggest that perhaps your (plural) jerk-o-metres are miscalibrated then I (again) have crossed a line?! ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/39 "2016-08-06T23:07:56Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > Sorry, you call me a jerk, and others pile on, that’s fine. **TGU** actually has a point here. **Colibri** , you can’t call the guy a jerk and then mod him for implying other posters are jerks in the same thread. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884/40 "2016-08-06T23:10:40Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > For goodness sake, Dangerosa went off in a huff because I called her on her equivocation. I might have been ever so slightly arch (but considerably less so than a number of posters (including you, bro) have been to me here). You were not “slightly arch,” you made a quite jerkish remark. > [@](#): > > What do can we characterise that behaviour? (see my OP for suggestions) What would be a generous (non-jerkish) interpretation of her behaviour? None of the formulations in your OP were a generous or civil description of her behavior. Nor do I think this is the place to get into the right way to describe\*\* Dangerosa’s \*\*behavior. All you have to know is that you shouldn’t be jerkish to another poster. If you can’t figure that out, then there’s no reason for you to post at all. The vast majority of posters understand what being a jerk is and are never noted or warned for it. You shouldn’t have to have it explained to you in excruciating detail. If you want to call another poster out, and want to be obnoxious about it, then take it to the Pit. Don’t do it in the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-warning-for-what-exactly/761884.md?page=3)