# A Watchmen HBO TV Series... \[Open spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546 "2017-06-21T16:21:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/321 "2019-12-10T20:34:34Z")
> [@Anglachel](#): > > It was implied earlier that they could afford the bakery (and ergo the house) because of “Redfordations” (reparations from the riot). I think that was just a racist thing that was thrown around. I assume the police own/pay for the bakery. I wouldn’t think she has to pay for that on her own. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/322 "2019-12-10T20:46:58Z")
Yeah - I’m not sure Angela had been able to prove ancestry to a Tulsa Riot survivor/victim before she got a DNA sample from her grandfather, could she? Maybe via her paternal grandmother? ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/323 "2019-12-13T11:49:23Z")
Geez I’ve enjoyed Regina King the throughout the seson but she was particularly good in ep8. She pulled off a perfect balance of skepticism and intrigue at the bar with Dr. Manhattan. I love a well done flirtation scene. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/324 "2019-12-13T19:08:48Z")
Regarding Lady Trieu and the elephant, I saw a post about this elsewhere. “Lady Trieu” is a historical Vietnamese figure: > **[Lady Triệu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Tri%E1%BB%87u)** > > Lady Triệu (Vietnamese: Bà Triệu, \[ɓàː t͡ɕiə̂ˀu\], Chữ Nôm: 婆趙 226 - 248) or Triệu Ẩu (\[t͡ɕiə̂ˀu ʔə̂u\], Chữ Hán: 趙嫗) was a warrior in 3rd century Vietnam who managed, for a time, to resist the rule of the Chinese Eastern Wu dynasty. She is also called Triệu Thị Trinh, although her actual given name is unknown. She is quoted as saying, "I'd like to ride storms, kill orcas in the open sea, drive out the aggressors, reconquer the country, undo the ties of serfdom, and never bend my back to be the co... > [@](#): > > “Lady Triệu (Vietnamese: Bà Triệu, Sino-Vietnamese: 趙嫗 Triệu Ẩu; 225–248) was a female warrior in 3rd century Vietnam who managed, for a time, to resist the Chinese state of Eastern Wu during its occupation of Vietnam.” > > “She has also been called the Vietnamese Joan of Arc.” > > “often rides **elephants** to fight” > > “fights while sitting on an elephant’s head, becoming an immortal after she dies” > > [folk art of Lady Trieu riding an elephant](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Ba_trieu_cuoi_voi.jpg) I didn’t catch them initially, but there are several instances of elephant-related imagery around Lady Trieu in this show. One of them is the logo of her pharmaceutical company. At first glance it’s a stylized “T” for Trieu, but it also looks like an elephant’s head with ears out to the side and tusks alongside the ‘trunk’ of the T. [The Trieu Pharmaceuticals logo is a fucking elephant. Damn. - Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/tbCnwXe.jpg) I’m not sure what the significance of the elephant is to the memory drugs, but elephants are definitely a theme here. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/325 "2019-12-13T19:16:55Z")
Elephants never forget. I think she was storing those memories in the elephant’s brain for some purpose. Scientific plausibility aside, that’s what I figured. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/326 "2019-12-13T19:47:22Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Regarding Lady Trieu and the elephant, I saw a post about this elsewhere. “Lady Trieu” is a historical Vietnamese figure: > > [Lady Triệu - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Tri%E1%BB%87u) > > I didn’t catch them initially, but there are several instances of elephant-related imagery around Lady Trieu in this show. One of them is the logo of her pharmaceutical company. At first glance it’s a stylized “T” for Trieu, but it also looks like an elephant’s head with ears out to the side and tusks alongside the ‘trunk’ of the T. [The Trieu Pharmaceuticals logo is a fucking elephant. Damn. - Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/tbCnwXe.jpg) > > I’m not sure what the significance of the elephant is to the memory drugs, but elephants are definitely a theme here. Excellent catch. I really have been pleasantly surprised by this series. Watchmen has been one of my favorite superhero stories/comic books for many decades. I really was expecting this to be a dud, even worse than the movie. Perhaps as bad as some of the Before Watchmen or Doomsday Clock stuff. At best I thought it would be on the level of the many recent TV series, Arrowverse, etc. I could never have guessed as a child that entire series based on my favorite characters would bore me. But they really put a lot of thought into this series. Who’d a-thunk it? ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/327 "2019-12-13T20:14:41Z")
It’s been a wildly entertaining ride to be sure. What between this, Mandalorian, Expanse and His Dark Materials I’m really enjoying my sci-fi/fantasy autumn. If they can stick the landing on this thing - which I doubt - and resist the temptation of turning it into a seasonal thing and faceplant like Westwood, they might just have made a great show. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/328 "2019-12-13T23:42:00Z")
Veidt specifically said he hated it in Europa because they did not need him. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/329 "2019-12-14T00:41:08Z")
[Angela explaining the last episode.](https://i.redd.it/s2tnrkxtxf441.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/330 "2019-12-14T20:37:15Z")
I’ve rewatched the series to date in order to ready for the last episode. Re elephant; - as said above there are a number of elephant designs around her but here’s one I missed. Lady Trieu served Will with an elephant design tea set. The other repeated motif I had not picked up on is the repeated use of eggs. We first see Angela at her kid’s show and tell and she syas ‘seperate the whites’ as she does just that, before making the ‘smiley face’ Watchmen image using the yokes in a bowl. Wheelie Will boils an egg and eats it in the bakery. The infertile couple are selling roadside eggs. Cal tries to make waffles but Angela breaks the eggs. Dr M makes an egg appear at the bar with Angela. etc. On rewatch, Veidt is given a horseshoe along with one of his cakes early on and says ‘I don’t need that yet’. Only picked up on it having seen his delight in getting a horseshoe in the last episode. I’ve never watched an entire series in readiness for the last ep before. I have loved it all and found it so inventive and rich. My only slight quibble is that Jeremy Irons is a bit too hammy for me. Veidt is meant to be a genius and he’s played here like a spoilt rich kid grown up. MiM ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/331 "2019-12-16T03:02:09Z")
I can’t even begin to describe the awesomeness of this episode. But I will say this. When Senator Keene called Angela a “black bitch”, the look on her face was identical to how she looked in the movie “Higher Learning” in the scene when that frat boy rapist called her character the same thing. I think that they did on purpose. And I love it. I loved this show. I’m so sad the adventure is over. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/332 "2019-12-16T03:11:10Z")
I liked it, but don’t think it was flawless. Two things I didn’t like: 1) frozen squid wouldn’t be like a machine gun, and if it was it should have killed Angela too. Can’t shred a metal spaceship and people, but not dent a piece of plastic. 2) Dr. Manhattan knew that would happen. There didn’t seem to be a greater purpose beyond wiping out the Cyclops. Why go through with it? I suppose if Angela actually got his powers there might be something there, but the stakes were significantly less important than the movie (haven’t read the comics). ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/333 "2019-12-16T03:13:49Z")
Also, who tf was the silver storm drain guy? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/334 "2019-12-16T03:24:53Z")
Fantastic episode! Even if folks did kind of guess at a lot of the reveals. I’m very satisfied with the season (and how it ended). Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/335 "2019-12-16T03:41:48Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Also, who tf was the silver storm drain guy? Oh, apparently HBO has supplementary material ([https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia](https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia)) that basically gives the answer to this if you want to know. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/336 "2019-12-16T03:45:58Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Also, who tf was the silver storm drain guy? I kept wondering that! And what was it that crashed into the field? Was that Veidt’s craft landing? Wasn’t that a long ago in series time, though? I finally got to be able to watch the previous two episodes last night. They were tremendous writing, deep, creative, meaningful, non-linear, connected. I wish the finale had been. C’mon, a countdown clock? Veidt arrested? Why pack fistfuls of tv and movie cliches into something this interesting and different? It’s like a new set of writers were brought in. They answered a few questions, like providing an explanation for Trieu being Veidt’s daughter, deus ex machina though it was, but there are sufficient loose ends to stuff a sequel. Besides Angela. How does a human cope with experiencing everything? Is being a black, female, mother sufficient to overcome everything? Why did Jon become human? Would that happen again? The material is potentially philosophically deeper than the history in this series. But can anyone make it believable? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/337 "2019-12-16T03:49:28Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Dr. Manhattan knew that would happen. There didn’t seem to be a greater purpose beyond wiping out the Cyclops. Why go through with it? I suppose if Angela actually got his powers there might be something there, but the stakes were significantly less important than the movie (haven’t read the comics). Well 2 things, DrM may have known that he was going to be disassociated by Trieu in one way or another, so he did it that way, resulting in the wiping out of Cyclops and Trieu at the same time while Veidt answers for his crimes (maybe having it revealed 35 years later mitigates the issues with revealing it in 1985). Secondly, it is said that DrM doesn’t particularly change the future, he just sees all aspects of time, and lives each moment at the same time. So asking why go through with it may be the wrong question - DrM may feel he has no option but to go through with it as that is how his life unfolds. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/338 "2019-12-16T04:13:09Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Well 2 things, DrM may have known that he was going to be disassociated by Trieu in one way or another, so he did it that way, resulting in the wiping out of Cyclops and Trieu at the same time while Veidt answers for his crimes (maybe having it revealed 35 years later mitigates the issues with revealing it in 1985). Secondly, it is said that DrM doesn’t particularly change the future, he just sees all aspects of time, and lives each moment at the same time. So asking why go through with it may be the wrong question - DrM may feel he has no option but to go through with it as that is how his life unfolds. I’m not sure I agree with the robbing him of free agency aspect. You can know the future and insist that’s the way it will happen and still act according to a way that shows agency. All the “I’m doing this because that’s the way I know it happens” stuff is fine if he knows it happens because he knows how he will act in those situations. I find it significantly less interesting and intellectually shallow if there’s no motive in his actions and “that’s just the way it has to be.” ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/339 "2019-12-16T04:28:27Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’m not sure I agree with the robbing him of free agency aspect. You can know the future and insist that’s the way it will happen and still act according to a way that shows agency. All the “I’m doing this because that’s the way I know it happens” stuff is fine if he knows it happens because he knows how he will act in those situations. I find it significantly less interesting and intellectually shallow if there’s no motive in his actions and “that’s just the way it has to be.” Isn’t that the age old question of predestination and free will. If you know how everything happens do you really have agency? Or do you have agency but what you will have done in that instance is already known and so will happen anyway? Does it matter which is true? Can free will exist with knowledge of how everything turns out? I don’t think a show based on a comic book is really going to answer that age old question. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/340 "2019-12-16T05:46:46Z")
Hmm, a good but not great ending. A number of things could be quibbled about, but I’ll just mention two. 1. The frozen squidlets would have been more like hail. They shouldn’t have been nearly so deadly and certainly shouldn’t punch holes through a person’s hand. 2. The whole Dr. Manhattan love story just seemed so…out of character. Even in opposition to the character as he was written in the comic. Instead of being more and more disconnected from humanity, DrM falls in love again for no particular reason, ending with that gagtastic “I’m experiencing all of our moments together at once” ending. Bleh. That said, my partner thought it was super sweet, so point to the hack writing, I guess. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546.md?page=18)