# A Watchmen HBO TV Series... \[Open spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546 "2017-06-21T16:21:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/341 "2019-12-16T12:09:55Z")
Topher’s unexplained telekinetic abilities are another open-ended thread that I really have no problem with. I laughed at the damaged Dreamland theatre sign sowing only ‘DR M’ I really loved it. Obvious nits to be picked and all. ‘I am the egg man’, indeed. MiM ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/342 "2019-12-16T13:40:21Z")
> [@Made\_in\_Macau](#): > > Topher’s unexplained telekinetic abilities are another open-ended thread that I really have no problem with. When did this happen? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/343 "2019-12-16T16:31:11Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > 1. Dr. Manhattan knew that would happen. There didn’t seem to be a greater purpose beyond wiping out the Cyclops. Why go through with it? Not going through with it is not an option. He knew it would happen because for him it already happened. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/344 "2019-12-16T16:39:42Z")
> [@Made\_in\_Macau](#): > > Topher’s unexplained telekinetic abilities are another open-ended thread that I really have no problem with. I laughed at the damaged Dreamland theatre sign sowing only ‘DR M’ I saw the theater sign as well, but don’t remember seeing signs of Topher’s telekinetic abilities. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/345 "2019-12-16T17:15:43Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Not going through with it is not an option. He knew it would happen because for him it already happened. That’s true, but tautological. It doesn’t explain _why_. I mean, he vaporized all the Kavalry’s heads, but left that one guy there behind the tachyon cannon, and then stood in just the right spot to be teleported into the lithium cage? It seems like he could have easily prevented that at any point. He is a god, after all. The only thing I can imagine is that he _chose_ to, and it was a form of suicide. But that motivation isn’t really hinted at. And honestly, I can’t wrap my head around the Doctor Manhattan I know dying by any means. In my mind, he’s just blasted himself to another metaphorical Mars. It’s a legit question, and the biggest plot hole of the season. I can only hope there will be some explanation next season, but I already read Lindelof will not do another season, and he considers his story finished this season. So what are we missing? Great story, either way. A lingering mystery gives you something to chew over. Hell, I’ve been thinking about the original comics for a decade now. Interpreting them is a lifelong source of entertainment, and I expect this show will be as well. There’s lots of unexplained things in The Leftovers I still think about when I’m bored, too. It’s part of the fun. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/346 "2019-12-16T17:29:39Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Not going through with it is not an option. He knew it would happen because for him it already happened. That would be true of literally anything he does. It explains nothing. If he had spent the last episode murdering Angela, her kids, and then tucking his cock between his legs and danced around like Buffalo Bill you wouldn’t say “he had to do that because for him he always did it.” You’d wonder what the possible motivation could be for him to do that. It only really works if his actions turn out to be the same as what he would do if he has complete volition over them, knowing the future. Reading a couple more reviews: in the second to last episode Dr. Manhattan tells Angela that it is important that she sees him walk on water. That seems to imply she actually did get his powers at the end. That, combined with Angela witnessing Trieu and Dr. Manhattan’s ends, perhaps sets her up as being a major force for good. I can see that being a worthy explanation. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/347 "2019-12-16T17:30:39Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > That’s true, but tautological. It doesn’t explain _why_. I mean, he vaporized all the Kavalry’s heads, but left that one guy there behind the tachyon cannon, and then stood in just the right spot to be teleported into the lithium cage? It seems like he could have easily prevented that at any point. He is a god, after all. To me he acted the way someone who knew what was going to happen was inevitable acts. He didn’t put in more effort to avoid getting teleported because he knew it would happen anyways. He is not suicidal, just resigned. To him this is a memory, not something he can actually affect. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/348 "2019-12-16T17:31:43Z")
I loved it. It’s really bugging me that we don’t know what crashed into the field though. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/349 "2019-12-16T17:34:21Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I loved it. It’s really bugging me that we don’t know what crashed into the field though. We do. It was Veidt. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/350 "2019-12-16T18:09:18Z")
I was expecting Trieu to pull off a “I did it 35 minutes ago” on Veidt. She fell into the classic trap of explaining her master-stroke while there was still a chance to stop her. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/351 "2019-12-16T18:26:32Z")
That was a good finale. I also was thrown off a bit by the infeasibility of the frozen squids being so damaging. They could have thrown in a line about the clock (and the floating ship) being incredibly delicate and fragile, I guess? Or “those squid are already so aerodynamic in shape, when I freeze them and launch them from 25,000 feet higher in the atmosphere…”? It’s a little nitpicky, and at the end of the day, doesn’t distract from the overall themes and stories of the season. I was anticipating a larger diabolical plan from Trieu (or, at least, different). I was thinking parallel to the comics. That in place of the giant squid that unleashes a psychic blast of fear, we have an elephant with a city’s worth of culturally diverse memories that permanently blur the line of individuality once unleashed in every Tulsa inhabitant’s mind. But I guess “I’m going to become a god” is a pretty big plan as well. 🙂 I don’t envy the job of writing an omnipotent character like Dr. Manhattan. It’s so problematic and full of loopholes, I wouldn’t know where to even begin. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > When did this happen? > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I saw the theater sign as well, but don’t remember seeing signs of Topher’s telekinetic abilities. There was a shot of him alone in his room playing with an Erector Set-like toy that was suspended in air, each piece moving independently. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/352 "2019-12-16T18:31:59Z")
I thought the idea there was that was a product of Dr Manhattan’s science magic, as were other things in that world. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/353 "2019-12-16T18:32:32Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > That would be true of literally anything he does. It explains nothing. If he had spent the last episode murdering Angela, her kids, and then tucking his cock between his legs and danced around like Buffalo Bill you wouldn’t say “he had to do that because for him he always did it.” You’d wonder what the possible motivation could be for him to do that. > > It only really works if his actions turn out to be the same as what he would do if he has complete volition over them, knowing the future. > > Reading a couple more reviews: in the second to last episode Dr. Manhattan tells Angela that it is important that she sees him walk on water. That seems to imply she actually did get his powers at the end. That, combined with Angela witnessing Trieu and Dr. Manhattan’s ends, perhaps sets her up as being a major force for good. I can see that being a worthy explanation. I agree. Maybe Dr. Manhattan was able to see the outcomes of a million different scenarios and they either ended with Trieu destroying the world or Angela being killed. He chose the option that had the best outcome. It does seem like as soon as Angela had “awoken” him, he could have escaped the whole madness by teleporting him and the family to Europa. But Trieu wouldn’t have given up. Maybe she would have started blowing important shit up unless Dr. Manhattan returned. Or maybe the 7K would have eventually (inadvertently) blown up important shit as they used the teleportation device for nefarious purposes, so Dr. M saw the wisdom of allowing himself to be captured by them. Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/354 "2019-12-16T18:34:39Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > We do. It was Veidt. Was it? Couldn’t Trieu have landed her rocket anywhere? The way I figure, she sent a probe to Europa while Veidt was still in Antarctica. She told him it would arrive in five years, hence why he knew to escape the atmosphere and arrange bodies into a message at that time. Then, years after that, the rocket sent by Trieu to retrieve him arrived to pick him up. Then, years later, after he had been bronzed for preservation, it arrived on Earth, where Trieu and her team were waiting with their unbronzing ray. But she bought that farm minutes before that thing in the sky landed. There was no reason to do that if the thing had been Veidt’s rocket. She could have landed it anywhere. And her unbronzing team was not there to receive Veidt when she bought the farm. I guess I thought it was just a meteor, one with the right mix of rare radioactive elements to construct her unobtanium ray she planned to use to destroy/become Dr. Manhattan. But I’m not entirely clear on that point. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/355 "2019-12-16T18:39:09Z")
Oh, my headcannon for the frozen squid is that they weren’t falling out of the sky, they were _shot_ out of the sky, and so Veidt’s claim that it would be like a machine gun could be true. They sure did look a lot like hail though. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/356 "2019-12-16T18:41:42Z")
But we’ve seen the Veidt bronze statue on her estate for several episodes - it/he had been there the whole time. It wasn’t until the moment of her final reveal did she want to unbronze him, probably for fear that he’d escape and try to stop her (which, in fact, he did). ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/357 "2019-12-16T18:42:08Z")
She didn’t unbronze Veidt until much later, she had him displayed as a statue in her garden. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/358 "2019-12-16T18:46:08Z")
Okay, that does change my mental sequence of events. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/359 "2019-12-16T18:50:01Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Was it? Couldn’t Trieu have landed her rocket anywhere? > > The way I figure, she sent a probe to Europa while Veidt was still in Antarctica. She told him it would arrive in five years, hence why he knew to escape the atmosphere and arrange bodies into a message at that time. Then, years after that, the rocket sent by Trieu to retrieve him arrived to pick him up. Then, years later, after he had been bronzed for preservation, it arrived on Earth, where Trieu and her team were waiting with their unbronzing ray. > > But she bought that farm minutes before that thing in the sky landed. There was no reason to do that if the thing had been Veidt’s rocket. She could have landed it anywhere. And her unbronzing team was not there to receive Veidt when she bought the farm. > > I guess I thought it was just a meteor, one with the right mix of rare radioactive elements to construct her unobtanium ray she planned to use to destroy/become Dr. Manhattan. But I’m not entirely clear on that point. …no, it was Veidt. Lindelof mentions this explicitly in many post-show interviews, he didn’t intend for it to be ambiguous, it just ended up that way for some 🙂 And my favourite post-show comment from Lindelof was this about Lube Man: > [@Vulture](#): > > **One final question, on a sillier note, because people are obsessed with Lube Man.** > > I love it. He’s captured the hearts of America in a way that we never suspected he would. > > \*\*Who is he? There’s a theory that he’s Agent Petey. > \*\* > Well, I will say that we felt those who have taken the time to read the Peteypedia deserved reward beyond the people who were just watching the TV show. The final installment of Peteypedia, which will drop right after the finale airs, does give strong indications as to the identity of Lube Man. > > When I read the original Watchmen, the thing that I was completely and totally obsessed with was Hooded Justice. I would talk to other people with familiarity about Watchmen, and I’d go, “I like that they never told us who Hooded Justice was,” and they’d look at me like, “Who?” And I’d be like, “You know, Hooded Justice? He’s one of the original Minutemen,” and their eyes would glaze over. I was like, “Oh, okay, nobody else cares about this thing.” But that obsession became the foundation for this season of Watchmen. And so, maybe somebody will do the same with Lube Man. There’s a clear indication as to who he may be, but we didn’t answer it definitively. For those future storytellers who may take up the mantle and do another season of Watchmen, I say Lube Man is fair game. > **[Damon Lindelof Knows Exactly What Happens After Watchmen’s Cliff-hanger Finale](https://www.vulture.com/2019/12/watchmen-finale-damon-lindelof.html)** > > “It didn’t feel that ambiguous to me.” Lube Man was Lindelof’s homage to the mystery of Hooded Justice. I just love that. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/360 "2019-12-16T21:43:30Z")
As far as predestination - I think he addressed that with his chicken AND the egg at the same time bit when his telling Will about Judd caused the future that caused the past. Dr. M. is acting with volition but because of what he knows which causes the future the knowledge of which had caused the action that caused it … Causation is bidirectional in that framing. As for the squids … they are not simple objects passively falling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546.md?page=19)