# A Watchmen HBO TV Series... \[Open spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546 "2017-06-21T16:21:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/81 "2019-10-15T22:51:16Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Was going to start a new thread but will just add to this one. It is getting great reviews. One TV reviewer I follow on Twitter said it was the best show of the new season (and maybe one of the best all time they added). > > [Here](https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-reviews/watchmen-hbo-review-897290/) is another positive one. I was cautiously optimistic but now I think I am excited. It helps that I just read Doomsday Clock (DC’s Watchmen/DCU crossover) which was not bad. The important question is whether Alan Moore will hate it or **really** hate it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/82 "2019-10-16T14:26:18Z")
My money’s on really really really hate it with the fiery passion of a thousand, no, a \*million \*suns. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/83 "2019-10-16T16:40:41Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > [Here](https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-reviews/watchmen-hbo-review-897290/) is another positive one. I was cautiously optimistic but now I think I am excited. It helps that I just read Doomsday Clock (DC’s Watchmen/DCU crossover) which was not bad. I read the first issue and it looked awful. Did it get any better? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/84 "2019-10-16T22:55:34Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I read the first issue and it looked awful. Did it get any better? I only read the first six issues but I liked it and want to see how it ends. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/85 "2019-10-21T02:06:41Z")
Watched the premiere. Good enough that I’ll be back. Saw some reviews - seems the portrayal of the Rorschach crew (7th Cavalry) had upset a certain demographic. Lots of reviewers threatening to cancel HBO due to their ‘agenda’. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/86 "2019-10-21T02:14:56Z")
I saw it, not having read the source material, and didn’t understand much of what was going on. I’ll read recaps and watch the later episodes and perhaps it will start to make sense. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/87 "2019-10-21T03:07:10Z")
I believe this is all-new, set in the movie Watchmen universe. So there might not be any other source material, though an understanding of the movie and its characters would probably help. They left lots of dangling hooks attempting to lure viewers, new and old, back for future episodes. That said, knowing the movie/comic would probably help in understanding the list of Presidents (the comic took place during the first name’s terms and the last was never mentioned) and the outcome of the Vietnam War, but the exposition filled in enough to follow along. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/88 "2019-10-21T05:18:07Z")
It actually seems to be set in comic Watchmen universe, not movie Watchmen. Hence the squids (and the Redford presidency). I thought it was fantastic. Starting with the Tulsa race riots was pretty intense and then picking up in alternate 2019 dealing with white supremacists was an inspired choice. I also get amused by those upset about the politics - it’s a sequel to The Watchmen, a super political comic book. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/89 "2019-10-21T12:48:05Z")
Yeah I thought maybe I was reading it deeper than intended but I saw parallels in the way the comic tackled one of the largest anxieties of its era (the cold war) with how this is tackling one of our present’s anxieties (race and white supremacy). There were a lot of background Easter eggs but I would imagine someone who has no knowledge of the comic would be very very confused and probably put off. I liked it quite a bit but suspect it’s numbers will go down a lot in episode 2. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/90 "2019-10-21T13:51:37Z")
It’s interesting that 40 years after the superhero ban which was instigated by a police uprising, the superheroes now _are_ the police. It seems pretty evident that the US is pretty much a police state at this point, and the cops are definitely fascists, and are only heroic by dint of the fact that the 7th Cavalry (who’ve followed after Rorschach, who was after all a right-wing conspiracy kook) are even worse fascists. I guess that’s appropriate for a modern-day adaptation of an Alan Moore satire. While the kids are reciting the names of the presidents near the end, I believe I heard them say that Gerald Ford _still_ managed to get a run in after Nixon, which is amusing. I also noticed a copy of _Under the Hood_ by Hollis Mason on the desk in the chief’s office, which was a nice Easter egg, as well as the old bank poster with Dollar Bill on it (no cape, though). The cars running on Dr. Manhattan tech, and the cops having Nite Owl’s ship (or at least a replica of it) were also nice touches. This is very different than what I expected, but I’m interested in seeing where it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/91 "2019-10-21T14:16:02Z")
I got the impression the present in the show was supposed to be after decades of uncontested left wing rule like how the comic was set after decades of uncontested right wing rule (Nixon’s multiple terms). The way that cops needed approval to draw weapons and the fact that at some point in the past there were reparations for slavery seem to suggest that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/92 "2019-10-21T14:24:42Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I saw it, not having read the source material, and didn’t understand much of what was going on. I’ll read recaps and watch the later episodes and perhaps it will start to make sense. To briefly summarize the source material (SPOILERS FOLLOW); In the 1930s, people started dressing up in costumes and fighting crime. It became a nationwide craze, especially during WWII when many of them contributed to the war effort. None of these people actually had super-powers - they all relied on their physical talents, their wit, or their knack for creating tools and gadgets. Around 1960, however, there came to be one true superhero - Dr. Manhattan. A nuclear accident transformed an ordinary man into a godlike being whose abilities are essentially unlimited - he can grow or shrink, produce copies of himself, teleport people or objects at will across great distances, transmute matter, kill with a thought, and to boot he’s omniscient - he exists in the past, present, and future all at once, and knows everything he’s going to do before he even does it. At President Nixon’s request, he personally intervenes in the Vietnam War, and not only wins the war for America within a matter of days, but subjugates the country to the point that it joins the US and receives statehood. Subsequently, the 22nd Amendment is repealed, nobody ever finds out about Watergate (because the Comedian, another hero working for the government, assassinated Woodward and Bernstein and Deep Throat), and America becomes completely energy-independent when fuel cells based on Dr. Manhattan’s abilities render fossil fuels obsolete. In the late '70s, the police stage a nationwide strike after getting fed up with superheroes running roughshod over their line of work, and Congress responds by making costumed vigilantism illegal except for those superheroes who agree to work exclusively for the government, primarily Dr. Manhattan and the Comedian. A handful of heroes continue to dispense their own brand of justice illegally, primarily Rorschach; a mentally-disturbed, right-wing conspiracy theorist who was motivated to become a hero by the murder of Kitty Genovese and is essentially a serial killer who targets those he considers undeserving of life. In the year 1985, Nixon is still president and America is on the brink of war with the Soviet Union due to America’s recent invasion of Afghanistan. Dr. Manhattan has become increasingly detached from his sense of humanity and can no longer perceive the future after a certain point mere weeks away, which he believes is because nuclear war is about to break out, and he abandons mankind and settles on Mars to be alone with his thoughts. Meanwhile, the Comedian is assassinated, and Rorschach begins investigating, eventually determining that he was murdered by another superhero, Ozymandias (Adrian Veidt, played by Irons on the show), who since the ban has gone into the tech industry and has been working on new technologies based on Dr. Manhattan’s abilities. In a climactic confrontation in Veidt’s base at the South Pole, Rorschach and a few other heroes learn that Veidt assassinated the Comedian, and caused Dr. Manhattan’s disattachment, to stop them from getting in the way of his plan to prevent war between the US and USSR. As it turns out, attempting to replicate Dr. Manhattan’s teleportation abilities with a machine works fine on inanimate objects, but it kills living things. With this in mind, he genetically engineered a giant, telepathic squid and, hours before the bombs were to fly (and thirty-five minutes before the confrontation), he teleports it into the middle of NYC, where the psychic outburst caused by its death kills millions, convincing both nations that Earth is being threatened by an interstellar enemy and that they must make peace in order to defend themselves against a common threat. Rorschach intends to reveal the truth to the world, but Dr. Manhattan, having come to his senses, sides with Veidt and kills him, though he warns him, when he says he’s ended the whole mess, that “nothing _ever_ ends.” I’m leaving a LOT out of that synopsis for brevity’s sake - there are several other major characters I haven’t even mentioned, several subplots, a comic-within-a-comic that parallels the main plot, and snippets of books that elaborate on the alternate history. It’s worth a read if you’re planning to follow the series. The movie is a really good adaptation as well, though it also leaves a few things out and changes the nature of Veidt’s master plan in a way some people dislike (though I’m OK with it). Personally, I just hope that this series doesn’t force me to go through my old social media and delete my old pictures of myself wearing a Rorschach Halloween costume because he’s being identified with white supremacists now. ---
**Author:** ![MoonMoon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonmoon/32/2959_2.png) [@MoonMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoonMoon)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/93 "2019-10-21T14:41:58Z")
Wow, thanks for that, **Smapti**. I have only the basic Watchmen knowledge I’ve absorbed over the years by being nerd-adjacent. I still watched (HBO + Lindelof = win, for me), and really enjoyed it. I wasn’t lost, but then again, I don’t mind letting a show wash over me and being patient as things are revealed. Slight side note for those who are wary of Lindelof: if you feel burned by Lost, please watch The Leftovers. He has completely redeemed himself with what is possibly the best television series ever. It’s certainly number one in my top three. Side note to my side note: watch all of it. The first season is pretty brutal, but is essential (no matter what you hear) to the full emotional experience of the series as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/94 "2019-10-21T14:46:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > (and thirty-five minutes before the confrontation) Truly one of the best panels in comic book history. After the heroes tell Veidt they won’t let him do it he replies “Do it? Dan, I’m not a republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I’d explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting it’s outcome? I did it 35 minutes ago”. Great synopsis btw! ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/95 "2019-10-21T15:14:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > While the kids are reciting the names of the presidents near the end, I believe I heard them say that Gerald Ford _still_ managed to get a run in after Nixon, which is amusing. I wonder if Nixon died (or had to resign after Squid-gate or whatever suffix they use for a scandal in this universe) and Ford as his VP had to fill the rest of his term (after 1985) until the 1988 elections when Redford won? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/96 "2019-10-21T17:33:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > convincing both nations that Earth is being threatened by an interstellar enemy and that they must make peace in order to defend themselves against a common threat. Nitpick: inter **dimensional** enemy. Otherwise, a superb summation of a ridiculously complex storyline. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/97 "2019-10-21T18:29:52Z")
Thanks for the summary. Some of that was covered by the movie a few years ago (which I did see, but it’s been a while) and I gather that the current series is set sometime after the events in the film. I was wondering about how the opening events with the Tulsa race riots tied into the later events. Like is the boy or the baby supposed to be Angela’s father? ---
**Author:** ![Awgrimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Awgrimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Awgrimm)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/98 "2019-10-21T19:28:59Z")
I assumed Louis Gossett Jr was the boy, since he is shown with the “watch over this boy” note laying in his lap in the final scene of the episode. I didn’t get the impression he was related to Angela. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/99 "2019-10-21T19:29:35Z")
Why does it rain squids? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546/100 "2019-10-21T21:03:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Why does it rain squids? The inter dimensional threat mentioned above took the form of a giant alien squid (in the book). The movie went a different way with it. Hence the show seems to be set in the world of the book rather than the movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-watchmen-hbo-tv-series-open-spoilers/789546.md?page=6)