# A wee bit hypocritical there, Ed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946 "2008-09-04T06:05:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/201 "2008-09-05T02:13:46Z")
> [@Jaade](#): > > /thread derailed > > You! Hey, you! > > /thread back on track Hey, you:) (I wonder how many other threads are gonna be hijacked like this. I don’t mind it, but I can’t imagine everyone is in love with the influx of old n00bs and how we’re interrupting threads to say hello to people we haven’t seen in two years:)) ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/202 "2008-09-05T02:14:52Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > We could speculate on titles for possible sequels: > > **The Barn Ultimatum** > > **Barn Free** > > **Barn This Book!** **The Fellowship of the Right Way**. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/203 "2008-09-05T02:16:33Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > We could speculate on titles for possible sequels: > > **The Barn Ultimatum** > > **Barn Free** > > **Barn This Book!** Ha! I should say I was rather pissed off at the locking of your Barn Kampf thread, and Scrivener’s Barnfire of the Vanities. So much potential, cut down in their infancy! I mean, move them to MPSIMS, sure, but lock them down? That’s just shitty. They are barning your dog. Barnstards. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/204 "2008-09-05T02:24:04Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > It’s a stupid, pointless indulgent wank of a forum and it deserves to be pointed and laughed at until someone wises up and pulls it: doesn’t the fact that people are lining up to hang shit on its very existence tell you something about it? It tells me some things about the forum and some things about the posters who are upset. Neither one proves the forum itself is a bad idea, and even if it is, this level of outrage is just absurd. Honestly, I find it embarrassing. > [@](#): > > And if you start banning or suspending people for poking fun at it just because it’s **Ed** ’s pet forum It has nothing to do with the fact that it’s the forum based around Ed’s book. (I can hear you snickering but it’s true regardless.) It’s because that’s just dickish behavior. If people had gone into The Game Room when it was new and started a series of “this forum sucks” threads, that would have drawn warnings too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/205 "2008-09-05T02:30:20Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How is that one forum different than the rest of Ed Zotti’s vanity message board? Surely you must be joking. It’s named “The Barn House Forum,” fer crissakes. Let’s imagine an equivalent “barnhousing” of the rest of the SD, shall we? – General Questions put to Ed or relating to Ed Great Debates: Ed or Cecil, and a few other issues Cafe Society – the music, films, etc. that Ed might like or comment on; also, Ed Z. as a fixture of our pop culture firmament …Etc., ad nauseum… And re. “barn” sequel thread titles: **Barn Yesterday** **Barn on the 4th of July** **An Alan Smithee Barn: Barn, Hollywood, Barn!** **Gebarnem In Absurdistan** – okay, that’s a German pun on [this title](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0235413/), but it seems apropos, no? ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/206 "2008-09-05T02:35:19Z")
Barn Stormers ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/207 "2008-09-05T02:45:11Z")
Ah my fellow ignorant dumbasses. Your lack of reading comprehension (or even reading ability at all) belies your wrath over the new forum. (that means you are dumb, either can’t or won’t read and this is why you are pissed off) Allow me to repost Ed’s views on the forum: > [@So, Is anyone going to tell us about/explain this new forum?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-anyone-going-to-tell-us-about-explain-this-new-forum/461941/29): > > Legitimate question. Let me explain the thinking here. > > The original idea was that I’d set up a book forum in the message board for a new site we plan to launch. We think the new site is an exciting idea; you’ll be hearing more about it in the next couple months. But it became clear the site wouldn’t be ready in time for publication of the book. So opening the forum here instead was Plan B. > > I think it’s a good Plan B, though. If the book does well and people want to talk about it, they’ll be directed here. (The last page of the book mentions [www.edzotti.com](http://www.edzotti.com), which is merely a landing page that tells people to come here.) That’ll bring new blood into the SDMB. Our user base stopped growing after we went to pay-to-post. We want to boost growth now that we’re going back to free posting. The new forum ideally will help us do that. (And yes, I have every confidence that we’ll be able to accommodate growth once Jerry gets the board upgrade tweaked - Jerry was fine with launching the book forum now.) > > Why not just direct people to a thread? Because I want people to understand that they can start threads and post their own great thoughts, not just respond to someone else’s. I need a forum for that. I could have just started a blog; nowadays that’s what most book authors do. Directing people into a message board is more complicated; frankly I’m not sure it’s going to work. This is an experiment - I’m trying to get a conversation going, not give a lecture. > > The whole thing could be a fiasco. The book may flop and no one will post here. If it becomes evident after a while that the forum just isn’t working, we’ll pull the plug. As it is we may move the book forum to the new site once we get that launched; we’ll see what makes the most sense. > Anyway that’s the thinking. Bottom line is I get to do it because I’m the site administrator, but this isn’t just an exercise in ego gratification - it may do the SDMB some good. If you pull your collective heads out of your asses long enough to check out the website: > **[edzotti](http://edzotti.blogspot.com/)** you will clearly see that the forum is not an ad for the book, the book is an ad for the forum and for the message board itself. Readers of this book will come to the “Vanity” forum to comment on the book and get shown the ads - boom, profit. If they find us entertaining they may stick around, post a little, lurk a little, be shown more ads - boom, more profit. It is ok children, I for one forgive your ignorance. After all, that is the mission of this board anyway, but let us not forget the purpose of this or any business venture - to make the PTB enough cash to cover costs and turn a dime or two to make it worth their time. Pay to post did not do that. Random strangers posting on an ad sponsored message board will. Hell, it’s possible that if a doper wrote a book and wanted the SDMB to host a discussion forum it could turn into a mutually beneficial relationship. Or not, what the hell do I know. But I know this, no matter how much belly aching we do TPTB will do whatever justifies their budget. And if we belly ache enough to piss His Most Perfect Baldness off then, one flip of a switch and the SDMB is history no matter what the income projection is. So suck it up buttercup, the new forum probably won’t be around forever (mentioned in Ed’s quote) but for now burning up bandwidth bitching about it is going to get you jack squat, especially when the bitching is coupled with ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/208 "2008-09-05T02:47:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It tells me some things about the forum and some things about the posters who are upset. Neither one proves the forum itself is a bad idea, and even if it is, this level of outrage is just absurd. Honestly, I find it embarrassing. And judging from [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=481669) you started in the new, yet strongly controversial, BH Forum, you must have a high threshold for embarrassment, as you chummily addressed your query directly to Ed Zotti, correspondence style – “Hi Ed,…” – just as everyone else on the SD board habitually begins their threads and queries, right? > [@](#): > > It has nothing to do with the fact that it’s the forum based around Ed’s book. (I can hear you snickering but it’s true regardless.) It’s because that’s just dickish behavior. If people had gone into The Game Room when it was new and started a series of “this forum sucks” threads, that would have drawn warnings too. Perhaps. But your argument would be more… grounded in reality?.. if there were in fact any dickish “this forum sucks” threads in the new, yet uncontroversial, Game Room forum. Which there aren’t. Not one, closed down or otherwise. **Marley23** , the fact remains that several threads grousing about the stupid Barn House forum that were _initiated in the Pit_ were also summarily shut down by moderators. It doesn’t really matter if we SD dissidents (with respect to the Barn House forum only) respectfully confine our doubts, carpings, satires and curses to the Pit ghetto or not, does it, since the same degree of activist mod censureship applies regardless. In other words, **Marley23** , don’t be such a fucking barnhouse. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/209 "2008-09-05T02:52:17Z")
> [@nd\_n8](#): > > Ah my fellow ignorant dumbasses. Your lack of reading comprehension (or even reading ability at all) belies your wrath over the new forum. I’m sorry, my reading comprehension is inadequate to elucidate this point, but are you confessing to ignorance or to being a dumbass, or both? Hoisted on your own petard, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/210 "2008-09-05T02:52:51Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > **Marley23** , the fact remains that several threads grousing about the stupid Barn House forum that were _initiated in the Pit_ were also summarily shut down by moderators. Well to be fair, that was just because they were superfluous. **Cisco** ’s was already up (fixed the title yet **Marley**?) ETA: :smack: oh wait, of course you haven’t, and I can see that straight away, cos it’s, like, THIS ONE? Look, it’s 4am here, and I’m a tired insomniac, the worst kind. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/211 "2008-09-05T02:55:06Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > And judging from [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=481669) you started in the new, yet strongly controversial, BH Forum, you must have a high threshold for embarrassment, as you chummily addressed your query directly to Ed Zotti, correspondence style – “Hi Ed,…” – just as everyone else on the SD board habitually begins their threads and queries, right? Yeah, it’s a forum for Ed’s book and I hear from Ed slightly more often than other posters do. He picked me to be a mod, the mods hear from him sometimes. Ta da. > [@](#): > > Perhaps. But your argument would be more… grounded in reality?.. if there were in fact any dickish “this forum sucks” threads in the new, yet uncontroversial, Game Room forum. Which there aren’t. Not one, closed down or otherwise. Ah, here we go with the hairsplitting. Three threads got locked in there today, deservedly so. Did they say “this forum sucks?” No. They were mocking the purpose of the forum, which I expressed in shorthand as “this forum sucks.” I don’t know if anybody here has ever used the term forum-shitting, but that’s what was going on there. If you have a philosophical disagreement with the forum, as everybody said repeatedly, you can talk about it here or in ATMB. > [@](#): > > **Marley23** , the fact remains that several threads grousing about the stupid Barn House forum that were _initiated in the Pit_ were also summarily shut down by moderators. They were duplicates, dude. Nobody’s stifling discussion, it’s just not necessary to have four Pittings of the BH forum going at once. This one was started first, a few others got started because people didn’t realize what the title of this one meant, and those others got locked. I’d fix the title of this thread, but I can’t edit thread titles in the Pit at the moment. This is not censorship; locking duplicate topics is standard everywhere. There is not a sinister motive here. > [@](#): > > In other words, **Marley23** , don’t be such a fucking barnhouse. Go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/212 "2008-09-05T02:59:53Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > I’m sorry, my reading comprehension is inadequate to elucidate this point, but are you confessing to ignorance or to being a dumbass, or both? > > Hoisted on your own petard, indeed. Why yes, yes I am. “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” - Socrates :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/213 "2008-09-05T03:00:41Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > Well to be fair, that was just because they were superfluous. **Cisco** ’s was already up (fixed the title yet **Marley**?) > > ETA: :smack: oh wait, of course you haven’t, and I can see that straight away, cos it’s, like, THIS ONE? Look, it’s 4am here, and I’m a tired insomniac, the worst kind. I can’t plead ignorance of Cisco’s thread 'cause I’ve been lighting it up, and your argument is, narrowly, a valid one. But if I were a mod with any interest in maintaining a neutral tone WRT the mushrooming threads critical of the new [yet strongly controversial] Barn House forum, I’d err on the side of caution and magnanimously let a few of the fledgling dissident threads survive, at least to the digital equivalent of toddlerhood. Besides, if mere repetition or redundancy were uniformly enforced as a thread-locking rationale, we’d have, like, one thousand-page-long thread for oohing over kittens (with pics!); one infinitely revived thread announcing the Steelers’ March to the Super Bowl; one thread denouncing Microsoft products; etc. ---
**Author:** ![nd\_n8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/439d5e/32.png) [@nd\_n8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nd_n8)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/214 "2008-09-05T03:02:26Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > I can’t plead ignorance of Cisco’s thread 'cause I’ve been lighting it up, and your argument is, narrowly, a valid one. But if I were a mod with any interest in maintaining a neutral tone WRT the mushrooming threads critical of the new [yet strongly controversial] Barn House forum, I’d err on the side of caution and magnanimously let a few of the fledgling dissident threads survive, at least to the digital equivalent of toddlerhood. > > Besides, if mere repetition or redundancy were uniformly enforced as a thread-locking rationale, we’d have, like, one thousand-page-long thread for oohing over kittens (with pics!); one infinitely revived thread announcing the Steelers’ March to the Super Bowl; one thread denouncing Microsoft products; etc. And could you imagine the thread about that treadmill business? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/215 "2008-09-05T03:09:18Z")
> [@The\_Scrivener](#): > > Besides, if mere repetition or redundancy were uniformly enforced as a thread-locking rationale, we’d have, like, one thousand-page-long thread for oohing over kittens (with pics!); one infinitely revived thread announcing the Steelers’ March to the Super Bowl; one thread denouncing Microsoft products; etc. We do, believe it or not, exercise common sense when possible. There’s no rule about allowing only one thread per topic _ever_. Allowing four Pit threads on the same exact subject on the same day would be a little ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/216 "2008-09-05T03:21:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Allowing four Pit threads on the same exact subject on the same day would be a little ridiculous. But a whole BarnParty forum full of threads about Ed’s book passes the sniff test? Mmmmmmkay. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/217 "2008-09-05T03:21:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ah, here we go with the hairsplitting. Three threads got locked in there today, deservedly so. Did they say “this forum sucks?” No. They were mocking the purpose of the forum, which I expressed in shorthand as “this forum sucks.” I don’t know if anybody here has ever used the term forum-shitting, but that’s what was going on there. I have no idea what you’re talking about. I checked the Game Room forum – all four pages, even though pages 2 through 4 were identically null – prior to posting, just to be sure, and there weren’t any locked thread-shitters. There were two locked threads but they were both related to the numeric game – which many participated in and which wasn’t critical of the forum at all, anyway. > [@](#): > > They were duplicates, dude. Nobody’s stifling discussion, it’s just not necessary to have four Pittings of the BH forum going at once. This one was started first, a few others got started because people didn’t realize what the title of this one meant, and those others got locked. I’d fix the title of this thread, but I can’t edit thread titles in the Pit at the moment. This is not censorship; locking duplicate topics is standard everywhere. There is not a sinister motive here. A reasonable sounding argument, but the devil’s in the details, or in this case, in the selective enforcement of the rules. That, and the mods’ collectively deaf ear towards how all this hair-trigger moderating, and reflexive defending of Ed & his new toy, sounds to most of us Dopers. > [@](#): > > Go fuck yourself. [No retort necessary.] ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/218 "2008-09-05T03:26:15Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > But a whole BarnParty forum full of threads about Ed’s book passes the sniff test? Mmmmmmkay. Dude, **Marley** doesn’t make the rules, he just enforces them. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/219 "2008-09-05T03:29:52Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Dude, **Marley** doesn’t make the rules, he just enforces them. Then he’s a barnship trooper? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946/220 "2008-09-05T03:30:57Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > But a whole BarnParty forum full of threads about Ed’s book passes the sniff test? Mmmmmmkay. You’re complaining about threads about the book in a forum about the book? Treating this question seriously, which it doesn’t really deserve, there are topics about salvaging wood, useless contractors, green building ideas, rehabbing urban houses, and rural living. Related stuff but not four instances of the same thread over and over. > [@The Scrivener Quote](#): > > I have no idea what you’re talking about. I can see. Here’s what I’m saying: threads about the merits or demerits of a forum belong in here or ATMB. Not in the forum in question. And the threads that got locked weren’t actually debating the issues of having a Barn House forum, they were more like threadshitting. > [@](#): > > A reasonable sounding argument, but the devil’s in the details, or in this case, in the selective enforcement of the rules What was selectively enforced? Two threads in ATMB about the Barn House stayed open, this thread stayed open, although the redundant pittings didn’t. The joke type threads in the Barn House forum got locked. As for my correspondence, by the way, it’s the same style as plenty of letters to Cecil. Cecil writes, Ed edits, made sense to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wee-bit-hypocritical-there-ed/461946.md?page=12)