# A "what if" regarding state prosecution of Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 13, 2020, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955 "2020-12-13T12:32:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/1 "2020-12-13T12:32:09Z")
Suppose that New York state indicts Donald Trump for violations of NY state law after he leaves office. Suppose that Trump is in Florida, saying and doing Trumpian nonsense. Suppose that FL Gov Desantis and the local executives order state and local officials to NOT cooperate with the extradition orders that would force Trump to go to NY and face charges. What happens? Can the Biden DoJ use Federal Marshalls to get and transport Trump, even though it’s a matter of NY state law, not Federal law? If so, what if the FL and local officials are ordered to resist? At what point can and would the courts step in? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/2 "2020-12-13T16:21:57Z")
Unless Trump is already in jail or on bail in FL, local authorities have no obligation to assist NY in his capture. If FL has arrested him, the governor is obligated to comply with federal laws and state agreements concerning extradition, but there are no legal sanctions that would force him to comply. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/3 "2020-12-13T16:29:02Z")
But this happens all the time – someone flees to another state, and then the other state arrests him and turns him over to the original state in which he’s charged with a crime. It was my understanding that states were obligated to do this. My question is what if FL authorities decide not to do this, even if they are legally obligated? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/4 "2020-12-13T16:32:05Z")
I’m not sure they are legally required to arrest. I believe its just a courtesy among police agencies. Extradition _is_ a legal obligation, but has no teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/5 "2020-12-13T16:38:28Z")
What happens then when Florida wants someone extradicted from New York State, or any other state? What incentive is there to cooperate? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/6 "2020-12-13T16:40:23Z")
I suspect that is the only thing (besides a general sense of justice) that encourages compliance. But does does the governor care more about that than his own political prospects? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/7 "2020-12-13T16:45:42Z")
The Supreme Court has held that the federal District Court in the state where the alleged felon is found has the jurisdiction to issue a mandamus to the state governor, ordering the extradition of the alleged felon. The source for this federal authority is the [Extradition Clause of the US Constitution (Article IV, Section 2, Clause 2).](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_Clause) See the Supreme Court decision in _Puerto Rico v Branstad_: > **[Puerto Rico v. Branstad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_v._Branstad)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Puerto Rico v. Branstad, 483 U.S. 219 (1987), was a case decided by the Supreme Court of the United States that ruled unanimously that federal courts have the power to enforce extraditions based on the Extradition Clause of Article Four of the United States Constitution. The decision overruled a prior decision in Kentucky v. Dennison, which had made federal courts powerless to order governors of other U.S. states to fulfill their obligations in th... ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/8 "2020-12-13T16:46:07Z")
BTW, it looks like Florida (along with Alaska and Hawaii) won’t extradite for anything less than a felony. Something to do with transportation costs I suspect, but a nice loophole if Trump is wanted on something too small. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/9 "2020-12-13T16:50:17Z")
In the case of federal intervention, I guess the courts could charge a non-complying governor with contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/10 "2020-12-13T17:31:40Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > In the case of federal intervention, I guess the courts could charge a non-complying governor with contempt Which comes with what actual consequences? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/11 "2020-12-13T17:47:02Z")
Wilful failure to obey a court order can be a criminal contempt, contrary to [18 USC § 401](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/401) > [@](#): > > A court of the United States shall have power to **punish by fine or imprisonment** , or both, at its discretion, such contempt of its authority, and none other, as— > > (1) Misbehavior of any person in its presence or so near thereto as to obstruct the administration of justice; > > (2) Misbehavior of any of its officers in their official transactions; > > (3) **Disobedience or resistance to its lawful writ, process, order, rule, decree, or command.** I would think that wilful failure by a governor to obey a writ or order of mandamus issued by the Federal court would infringe sub (3). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/12 "2020-12-13T17:53:11Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > BTW, it looks like Florida (along with Alaska and Hawaii) won’t extradite for anything less than a felony. Something to do with transportation costs I suspect, but a nice loophole if Trump is wanted on something too small. If transportation cost is the only obstacle, hell, start a GoFundMe and it would probably raise enough money in about 15 minutes to buy trump a car. Or a plane. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/13 "2020-12-14T19:28:20Z")
[quote=“Dewey\_Finn, post:5, topic:927955, full:true”] What happens then when Florida wants someone extradicted from New York State, or any other state? What incentive is there to cooperate? [/quote]If the person has already been arrested in one state, there is often the incentive that once the arrestee is transported, that’s the end of their financial burden – no need to house, feed, & guard him in a jail, no need for an expensive trial, and no probation or prison expense – the other state has him now, and it’s all their cost from now on. Another possible incentive is that Florida is a welfare state – they receive way more money from the Federal government than they pay in Federal taxes. So if the Feds (like President Biden) get real annoyed at Florida about this, they can seriously impede the flow of Federal cash to Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/14 "2020-12-14T20:37:17Z")
I’m sure NY State would pay the bus fare. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/15 "2020-12-15T03:03:40Z")
Pretty sure that if one state were to issue another a writ of mandamus to extradite someone, and the state refused, the state issuing the writ would have to take it to the Supreme Court. Who would, as I understand it based on @Northern_Piper’s citation, be essentially bound to find in favor of the issuing state. There’s not much latitude in terms of actual statutes like that as far as I know. Plus, I suspect that failing to extradite would run afoul of the Constitution directly as part of the extradition clause. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/16 "2020-12-15T05:13:56Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The Supreme Court has held that the federal District Court in the state where the alleged felon is found has the jurisdiction to issue a mandamus to the state governor, ordering the extradition of the alleged felon. The source for this federal authority is the [Extradition Clause of the US Constitution (Article IV, Section 2, Clause 2).](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_Clause) But as noted upthread, this all assumes that the person sought is in custody. It is a disputed issue whether the second state must affirmatively take action, using its own police force and resources, to arrest the sought after individual in the first place. The only precedent is the Fugitive Slave Clause, nearly identical to the extradition clause, and the Supreme Court permitted “Personal Liberty Laws” to stand in northern states which basically said that yes, we have to return runaway slaves, but everyone in this state is prohibited from finding them in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/17 "2020-12-15T10:51:07Z")
Sure, but if the person is not in custody, is there no mechanism for the enforcement of an arrest warrant from the requesting state ? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/18 "2020-12-15T15:27:57Z")
I think that is a niche mostly filled by federal marshals and bounty hunters. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/19 "2020-12-15T15:31:26Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I think that is a niche mostly filled by federal marshals and bounty hunters. - The bounty hunters may have a problem with the Secret Service. Or they might get total co-operation. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-if-regarding-state-prosecution-of-trump/927955/20 "2020-12-15T23:37:41Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Sure, but if the person is not in custody, is there no mechanism for the enforcement of an arrest warrant from the requesting state ? As a rule, states do it for each other as a matter of course. Whether it is mandatory is an open legal question. For an ordinary crime, states will gladly cooperate because none want a bank robber, kidnapper, or murderer in their midst. Further, fleeing a state to avoid prosecution is a federal crime: [18 U.S. Code § 1073 - Flight to avoid prosecution or giving testimony | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1073#:~:text=Whoever%20moves%20or%20travels%20in,laws%20of%20the%20place%20from), If we had the hypo presented here: NY wants to prosecute Trump, but Florida isn’t having it, then we have a standoff. And I’m not sure of the ultimate outcome. What if a U.S. District Court orders Trump’s arrest? Florida says, “Sure, we are working on that.” How hard can the Court order Florida to look for him? Is “we knocked on the front door of Mar-a-Lago and they said he wasn’t home” good enough?