# A "What the fuck?" to TheWhoToTheWhatNow **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125 "2011-05-25T06:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/41 "2011-05-25T15:10:59Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > In his defense, “rape-n-pancakes” would make a capital band name. Rapecakes! ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/42 "2011-05-25T15:17:46Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Rapecakes! That’s a darned good word, regardless: “Did you see that? It was totally rapecakes!” “Shut up before I go absolutely rapecakes on you, dude!” “Must be that time of the month - she went all rapecakes with syrup when I mentioned Paul.” ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/43 "2011-05-25T15:18:04Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I found his insight valuable in the first thread about pick-up artists a couple months ago. But wow, has it been downhill from there. I feel the same way - I defended him in that thread and found him quite valuable, but this is gross. ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/44 "2011-05-25T15:21:16Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > Just a side note, I responded to the OP in this pit thread because it left out relevant quotes that make the OP’s outrage baseless, but my participation in this thread will probably be limited to drawing ASCII penises because it’s just going to be a silly negative doggy-pile and I don’t see any reason to participate in it. 🙂 > > Have fun! > > - TWTTWN This, almost as much as the rape trolling comments, is the true sign of a self-righteous asshat. First, the asshat says, “you guys are all stupid and mean, I’m taking my ball and going home.” But instead of going home, the asshat just sits on the side of the field throwing out snide comments about how great his ball is and how he knows everyone on the field wishes they could play with his ball. OK, that metaphor got sort of weird, but it actually is a pretty clear description of Trolly McTrollerson here. Just fucking go home already. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/45 "2011-05-25T15:28:12Z")
Well, we _say_ we don’t want to play with his ball but if he makes us rapecakes afterwards we’ll admit that we really do. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/46 "2011-05-25T15:30:00Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > So, look, **TWttWN** really isn’t that complicated, however much he wants to be. > > [snip] > > . This was lovely. In small, simple words: It’s not that we think you force a girl into having sex and then jolly her out of it, it’s that we think you think it’s NOT RAPE when other people do it. It’s that you seem to think there is a “gray area” where you hard-sell sex because you want it really bad, and that it’s ok, admirable, even, to push that gray area to the limit. You seem to want to _quibble_ about when the “hard sell” becomes “rape”, and when you say “we have a lot of experience studying first, second, third-hand etc.”, it’s comes across as a bunch of guys asking each where _exactly_ the line is between salesmanship and rape, because they are terrified of possibly, possibly stopping anywhere short of that line if it wasn’t absolutely, positively rape. It paints a picture of guys who are really concerned with defining “almost rape” so that they can live in that gray area. That’s creepy. And that’s not at all the same as being a “PUA”. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/47 "2011-05-25T15:32:07Z")
I am curious, **TWTTWN** , from where your degree of certainty in the accuracy of your reading of people comes from. I know a number of people who pay serious attention to body language who have noted that I am extremely hard to read (my default, relaxed posture involves crossing my arms over my chest, I’m funny about eye contact, etc.) Furthermore, there are a number of studies demonstrating that it is very difficult to accurately predict what someone is thinking or feeling based on their nonverbals; consider [this](http://www.learnmax.in/Psychology-Basics/711.html) study of police officers (presumably trained in spotting deception) doing very poorly in spotting liars. Finally, there is the danger of confirmation bias; it is more gratifying to assume that one is being provided token resistance than the possibility that one’s potential partner is genuinely uninterested but will go along with sexual activity out of group pressure or similar. One should always be wary of making assumptions along the lines one greatly desires; it is very easy to miss contradictory data that way. Given all this, I am curious where the degree of certainty comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/48 "2011-05-25T15:57:00Z")
> [@leander](#): > > This is a former member who is trolling the fuck out of you guys. Frankly I can’t believe he’s managed to last this long. Seriously. Dude couldn’t be more obviously a troll if he was wearing a t-shirt that said “Kiss me, I’m a troll!”. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/49 "2011-05-25T16:05:18Z")
I don’t understand why everyone’s vaginas are getting all sandy. I think TWTTWNs view is perfectly cromulent. Everytime I murder people I drag their bloody corpses out to Dennys for some bacon rapecakes and afterwards we are best buddies. In fact this one guy I killed and I went to see the movie Thor and he totally paid for the tickets and popcorn.\* \*Well I did have to take the money out of his wallet as his arms had started to gangrene so I had to cut them off. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/50 "2011-05-25T16:07:30Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I don’t understand why everyone’s vaginas are getting all sandy. I think TWTTWNs view is perfectly cromulent. Everytime I murder people I drag their bloody corpses out to Dennys for some bacon rapecakes and afterwards we are best buddies. In fact this one guy I killed and I went to see the movie Thor and he totally paid for the tickets and popcorn.\* > \*Well I did have to take the money out of his wallet as his arms had started to gangrene so I had to cut them off. He didn’t say bacon! Now throw bacon in there, and we might consider it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/51 "2011-05-25T16:08:40Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > And it doesn’t mean you can talk her out of pressing charges later. I guess part of the problem is that, sometimes, it does. Because most rapes are committed by people known to their victims, including spouses, boyfriends or dates, they do often have the benefit of talking their victim out of pressing charges (sometimes with the help of mutual friends or family members). Often by treating the rape as sex or by forcing them to doubt their own interpretation of events. There was a great piece online (Googling is just turning up the Steve Wilkos Show) about women who ended up dating or even marrying their rapists, because they thought if they could redefine the crime they wouldn’t have to acknowledge that they were victims. Scary stuff. But luckily, if you are a nice guy who likes having sex with people who are healthy and clearly into you, you’ll never have to deal with it! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/52 "2011-05-25T16:22:09Z")
(ETA That whole post wasn’t directed at Lynn Bodoni. Also I just started reading the thread this Pitting was referring to, and now I don’t think it’s harsh enough. TWhatshisface has said some reasonable stuff in the past, often in an overly wordy and grandiose way, but some decent advice and observations that we’ve all heard before. But this is vile.) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/53 "2011-05-25T16:25:12Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I was skeeved from the get-go, and found the glad-handing by several posters to be… troubling. It’s nice, at least, to confirm that my instincts are properly calibrated. Hey, me too! At first I thought my negative first impression of him simply came from him announcing himself as a PUA–which in my mind, is exactly like saying “Hey, I’m a massive tool who thinks getting a woman to smile at me is a major life accomplishment”. But if one reads between the lines of his self-congratulatory glurge, you can clearly see someone who is exactly like how **storyteller** described. A sad sack who defines himself by how many “chicks” he can sleep with, willingly or unwillingly. Because that’s what alpha males do, you know. This is being masculine is all about. And it’s all about quantity not quality. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s spends a lot of his time on PUA message boards, where he’s treated like a wisened oracle that other wannabes seek truth from. Then he comes here and the poor thing is constantly “misunderstood”, and seems shocked everytime it happens. Like, why can’t we all see how awesome he like his PUA bros do? What’s wrong with us? Why aren’t we begging to touch the hem of garments? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/54 "2011-05-25T16:27:55Z")
Oh, I understood that you weren’t directing most of that post towards me, and I agree with you, women are quite frequently pressured into either not filing rape charges in the first place, or retracting their charges. I mean, right now we’re hearing stories about how the supporters of the IMF guy are trying to buy off the alleged victim’s family…and the reason they aren’t trying to buy off the victim is because she’s not available. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/55 "2011-05-25T16:28:39Z")
> [@Anamorphic](#): > > Seriously. Dude couldn’t be more obviously a troll if he was wearing a t-shirt that said “Kiss me, I’m a troll!”. I don’t think he’s a troll, really. He’s defended his creepo positions too earnestly for that. He just comes across as a socially awkward person who mistook lack of introspection for self-confidence (the whole I’m-awesome-and-I-won’t-hang-with-people-who-harsh-my-cool attitude) and was bolstered enough by the warm reception he got in the original PUA thread to start thinking he was an expert on the whole business. The fact that he can’t tailor his register and understand why he’s pissing off so many posters suggests that he lacks real social skills and only knows the PUA tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/56 "2011-05-25T16:45:32Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I guess part of the problem is that, sometimes, it does. Because most rapes are committed by people known to their victims, including spouses, boyfriends or dates, they do often have the benefit of talking their victim out of pressing charges (sometimes with the help of mutual friends or family members). Often by treating the rape as sex or by forcing them to doubt their own interpretation of events. There was a great piece online (Googling is just turning up the Steve Wilkos Show) about women who ended up dating or even marrying their rapists, because they thought if they could redefine the crime they wouldn’t have to acknowledge that they were victims. Scary stuff. > > But luckily, if you are a nice guy who likes having sex with people who are healthy and clearly into you, you’ll never have to deal with it! I’ve also known people who have said they didn’t consider what was happening to them at the time as rape. It was just bad sex or unpleasant because they didn’t want to admit to themselves that someone they knew could actually rape them. It’s a pretty horrifying concept. Hell, the Ms. report, _I Never Called It Rape_ is full of stories like that. If you know someone is protesting or unhappy with having sex with you, why is your first thought that if you’re nice to her afterward, it’ll be OK? Shouldn’t your concern be, _Maybe we shouldn’t be doing this_? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/57 "2011-05-25T17:05:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Rapecakes! Crêpes, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/58 "2011-05-25T17:05:38Z")
> [@leander](#): > > This is a former member who is trolling the fuck out of you guys. Frankly I can’t believe he’s managed to last this long. I was thinking the same thing. There are a lot of clues in the posting style that scream “I’m quite familiar with this board as I’ve been posting here for quite some time.” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/59 "2011-05-25T17:08:35Z")
I thought February was Rape Month? 😕 So, he’s a troll, eh? Whether he is or not, he sure has some stupid ideas. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/60 "2011-05-25T17:10:39Z")
> [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > I actually got looped into youwiththeface’s “do you have experience with that?” super vague question, where when I said yes I meant with being in the general “this could go either way” situation, not executing the “rape 'n pancakes” example specifically, but I didn’t realize till later that she/he was asking “do you have experience raping a girl and making her pancakes”, so I guess that was my bad for not interpreting his/her question in the most attacking light possible before answering. Hon, you got delusions on top of delusions. It ain’t like we haven’t read that whole [exchange](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13801801&postcount=172) several times now, so who trying to you fool? Let’s play it again: > [@TheWhoToTheWhatNow](#): > > But if you have the same sex with a girl and she’s **protesting the entire time** , BUT you make her feel positive about the event, cuddling her after, calming her emotions/anger/etc. down, make her laugh, get her in a good state again, eat breakfast together, take her number, date for a few times, etc. > [@ywtf](#): > > (bolding mine) > > Do you have firsthand experience with this kind of thing? I’m really curious to know how you’ve come by this knowledge. If this is what super vague looks like in your world, then it’s no wonder consent seems so ambiguous to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125.md?page=4)