# A "What the fuck?" to TheWhoToTheWhatNow **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125 "2011-05-25T06:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/162 "2011-05-27T03:24:03Z")
No kissing on the lips… ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/163 "2011-05-27T03:40:15Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Not being able to get said podcast, what did Savage have to say? B. Serum’s summary is accurate and complete; Dan Savage spends a lot of time going over the point that if a sexual experience leaves you feeling shaky and violated years later, whether or not you happened to say “Yes.” at some point during the proceedings doesn’t mean much. There is no talk about her actions, the exact circumstances, and whether or not it was rape or not, and focus the fact that her friend and family going back and forth over whether or not it was rape were asking the wrong damn question. As he says, “It doesn’t matter what label you want to put on it, it was an awful goddamn experience.” ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/164 "2011-05-27T04:22:18Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Nooooooo! I’ll rape you, but I won’t hold hands. That’s way too intimate for me. BWUH BWUH BOO HOO HOO I’m feeling violated! ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/165 "2011-05-28T23:49:29Z")
So here’s a chance to talk about rape but let’s spend several pages on _really_ non-jokes about shit. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/166 "2011-05-28T23:59:28Z")
> [@margin](#): > > So here’s a chance to talk about rape but let’s spend several pages on _really_ non-jokes about shit. Go for it, you start. Or better yet, start a thread that’s not in the Pit about it. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/167 "2011-05-29T00:39:22Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Go for it, you start. Or better yet, start a thread that’s not in the Pit about it. You’ve seen previous threads about rape—Oh, there was the one where guys lined up to blame the eleven-year-old rape victim from Cleveland, but protest they weren’t _really_ blaming her. Hell, any rape thread on this place is soon swamped with assholes talking about ‘crying rape’ and false accusations. If you object you’re a nutjob, hysterical, whatever. I was right about TWTTWN., but he wasn’t the only one: > [@](#): > > Dress overtly sexy, and act overtly sexy, you will receive far more sexual attention than someone dressed normally. Acid Lamp, in a thread about rape. Same thread, same poster: > [@](#): > > I’m saying that all actions, including acting like a cocktease have repercussions that we should ultimately bear some responsibility for. They also, in my opinion don’t have the ethical right to go about acting in a deceptive manner merely to entertain themselves. And, again: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Acid Lamp > However, I have significantly less pity for a woman who indulges in flirty, sexually charged activity all night than one who merely was out for a normal pleasant evening out with a date. And of course there’s the never ending line up of guys who want to give out utterly idiotic and stupid advice which is so fucking _useless and obvious_ that anybody who needs it is a moron. “Don’t walk alone at night!” Yeah, if only it were that simple. And despite being informed repeatedly that most rapes are not in fact rapes of slutty cockteases in miniskirts, poster after poster cosigns the ‘cocktease in a dark alley’ viewpoint of rape. And wants to give women incredibly patronizing advice that would work only if women could do it 24/7, perfectly, every day for the rest of her life, which includes never leaving the house or having fun. Also, heavily implied in this advice is the notion that rape is so common and ordinary that women must be afraid at all times, which in turn suggests that rape is so common, so prevalent that any one who advises such caution in every aspect of one’s life believes that most men would rape if they got the chance. Yet to point this out is to be accused of man hating. And all this to guys who simply refuse to listen and call you variations of ‘hysterical feminazi’ or whatever it is they can get away. And then there’s the fact that they will not discuss the rapist. There’s condemnation, and that’s it. Analysis? Never. Maybe it would strike too close to home, once the discussion ever moved out of that dark alley. I’m sure I"ve missed something and I’m sure a line of guys will form on the right to call me a man hating crazy whatever, but go look at some of the rape threads. I’m really eager to know what this crowd agrees \* IS \* blaming the victim, because criticizing her shoes, clothes, behavior, drinking habits, flirting, method of getting home—she seemingly always flashes rolexes and cash while traipsing down dark alleys (hint: SARCASM)—and what’s always apparently regarded as cruel cockteasing does not fit a seemingly impossible standard. And no gradations between black and white are allowed. For example: Some poster whose name I won’t go get: > [@](#): > > I agree with this much. When I speak of “rape,” I’m only ever speaking of situations in which one person has said “stop” (or anything equivalent) and the other has not stopped. Because no situation has ever arisen where a victim might not be able to say something. Nope. And then there’s _this_ paen to…well, you tell me: > [@](#): > > n my opinion, victims of any crime are rarely entirely irresponsible for placing themselves into a dangerous or questionable situation. That is NOT the same a victim blaming. The attacker always bears the entire responsibility for their choices and actions. We do not have to dangle bait in front of them though. We don’t have to poke the bear with sticks. I do not believe that an empowering , and equitable culture allows people to act in a provocative and often irresponsible manner and then simply relieve them of their guilt because we feel terrible that something bad happened. Doing so cheapens the real horror of actual victims and that is something I’m not comfortable with at all. So apparently male sexuality, when aroused, must be sated, and while that’s NOT victim blaming, it sure sounds an awful lot like justification. That right there, that last bit? That’s a guy saying that there’s real rape, which he takes seriously, he’ll have you know. But he’s comparing the woman’s actions to poking a bear or dangling bait. Tell me, what situations do this things happen in? I like the way he tries to take the high road there at the end. Sounds like he’s very close to talking about ‘real’ victims of ‘real’ rape. So go ahead. Tell me how nobody’s blaming the victim, for starters. Or whatever. Maybe we can have a discussion about false rape accusations where nobody mentions that women get falsely accused of making false accusations. [A Denver woman was charged and made to pay a fine in court before the cops caught her rapist three years later](http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/04/15/woman-pays-for-reporting-a-rape/) and found that her photo amongst those of his other victims. He raped at least four other women, but the cops are being kind of close lipped about it. This is an _actual_ rape victim, who lived with that charge for _three years_ while she was identified as a false accuser. Thanks to the cops dismissing her, other victims were raped, and other women intimidated. ``` Yeah, thanks but no. I especially love how all the crap that I've posted above represents only a bare fraction of it. But nobody blamed the victim---they all agreed on that---so I'm just a crazy bitch or whatever it is some of these guys like to call me. Yet funnily enough, apparently I and a few others are the only ones who've actually read a *a book or a few studies* about real life real world rape. And I'm really really curious as to what meets muster as victim blaming when the shit I posted above did not pass muster as such. ``` ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/168 "2011-05-29T01:39:03Z")
Too long; don’t rape. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/169 "2011-05-29T01:42:24Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Too long; don’t rape. And I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/170 "2011-05-29T01:44:01Z")
Thank God. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/171 "2011-05-29T02:25:06Z")
“Too long; I’m a crazy bitch” FTFY ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/172 "2011-05-29T02:35:03Z")
Very impressive post margin. Otara ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/173 "2011-05-29T02:38:14Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > “Too long; I’m a crazy bitch” > > FTFY Don’t prove my point or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/174 "2011-05-29T02:43:20Z")
> [@margin](#): > > And I rest my case. At least they’re making your case for you and you don’t have to look up any more skeevy quotes from skeevy guys. I hate that I’m bad with names because it’s hard to keep the freaks straight on a large board like this. I need the spreadsheet **Inner Stickler** was talking about in another pit thread. Added bonus: When people post anything truly over-the-top (good or bad) I admit I will go to the portrait gallery to see what said person looks like. I did so after reading the quotes from your last post and yikes, it’ll be hard to fall asleep tonight! ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/175 "2011-05-29T02:50:29Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > At least they’re making your case for you and you don’t have to look up any more skeevy quotes from skeevy guys. I hate that I’m bad with names because it’s hard to keep the freaks straight on a large board like this. I need the spreadsheet **Inner Stickler** was talking about in another pit thread. > > Added bonus: When people post anything truly over-the-top (good or bad) I admit I will go to the portrait gallery to see what said person looks like. I did so after reading the quotes from your last post and yikes, it’ll be hard to fall asleep tonight! Yeah, I’ve done that, too. it’s not a pleasant experience. When you add to that the way they argue over consent----like, if they don’t seize that stray opportunity, MY GOD, it will never come again----it creates a very nasty portrait. Like, dude, consent is not hard. If you’re worried about it, you don’t have it. How come ‘just walk away’ is not an option? Look at those quotes; I couldn’t bear to look up any more. If you want to sleep tonight, don’t go look up the thread about the 11-year-old gang rape victim in Cleveland Texas. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/176 "2011-05-29T04:02:17Z")
Before your auspicious landing, ladies, public opinion in this thread (that of yours truly included) was overwhelmingly critical of **TheWhoToTheWhatNow** ’s words and general scuzzbag worldview. Offered merely for your information, in case it was muffled by the lusty scrape of dragged crosses and spontaneous _a capella_ beltings of “I Am Womyn.” ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/177 "2011-05-29T04:02:45Z")
Note: I fixed the link. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/178 "2011-05-29T04:30:47Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Before your auspicious landing, ladies, public opinion in this thread (that of yours truly included) was overwhelmingly critical of **TheWhoToTheWhatNow** ’s words and general scuzzbag worldview. Offered merely for your information, in case it was muffled by the lusty scrape of dragged crosses and spontaneous _a capella_ beltings of “I Am Womyn.” This could have been phrased less acidly but it’s apt. I mean, hell, the majority is (well, was, before the jokes started) savaging \*\*TWTTWN \*\*in this thread. The majority was slamming on every idiot who tried to argue for ANYTHING regarding slutty posting, including slamming the idiotic views of **Acid Lamp** that \*\*margin \*\*quotes upthread. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a discussion regarding any kind of sexual assault on the dope where **margin** ’s viewpoint was in anything but the vast majority. Hat tip to **Sleeps with Butterflies** for the implied judgement on the basis of looks, too. That’s ALWAYS classy. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/179 "2011-05-29T04:31:19Z")
> [@margin](#): > > So here’s a chance to talk about rape but let’s spend several pages on _really_ non-jokes about shit. There are plenty of chances to talk about rape. There have been threads and threads and threads about rape. There are threads in GQ, in GD, in the Pit. Hell I’ve seen them in MPSIMS. February was “rape month”. Every other thread was about rape. You’re acting like this thread is the only chance to talk about rape. It’s not. So stop being a sanctimonious fucking bitch and if you don’t what’s happening in THIS thread, set up your own thread in GD with rules about no jokes allowed and go be a shrill, bitter fuck in there. This thread is and was wholesale condemnation of TWTTWN’s attitude and behaviour. Almost everyone making a joke in this thread has also told TWTTWN how much of a disgusting jerkbag he is, and he’s just waffling the same poor justifications and bullshit, so we’re making fun of it. But fuck, why let that stop you being DEFENDER OF TEH RAEP THREASD? You stupid bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/180 "2011-05-29T04:55:35Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Hat tip to **Sleeps with Butterflies** for the implied judgement on the basis of looks, too. That’s ALWAYS classy. wah wah wah, this is the Pit, Tinkerbell. Class doesn’t matter here. Plus, it’s just as valid as half the shit people around this place judge people on such as where they eat dinner, what they listen to, and if they started reading in the womb. The quote sounded like it was from a creep so I checked out the gallery. Yep, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck… ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125/181 "2011-05-29T05:22:37Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > wah wah wah, this is the Pit, Tinkerbell. Apparently you’re having some trouble discerning the difference between “me whining like a fairy” and “me metaphorically whapping you on the nose with a newspaper for doing something I find ridiculous”. Hope that clarifies the matter, toolbox. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-what-the-fuck-to-thewhotothewhatnow/583125.md?page=10)