# A wheelchair story **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 14, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921 "2012-05-14T19:23:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/21 "2012-05-14T23:38:17Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > **Melon** : I was thinking it was all 3 steps, and that it would have to bump myself all 3 steps. :smack: Nope. The ramp thing would only reach to step number two, so it was just one step to be lowered down to reach the ramp. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/22 "2012-05-14T23:52:56Z")
Lest anyone stuff like this only happens where you live- in the UK, near where I live, there is a town with a fairly large train station, midway between two cities, which only has wheelchair access to the westbound platform (the other side has about 30 steps and no lift). Basically, if you use a wheelchair, and you wish to visit either city, to get both there and back you have to spend at least 20 or so extra minutes (assuming no waiting for the connection, a rather big assumption) for what should be a 7 minute or so trip, in order to take an extra train straight through the station you started from. Or you could get the bus, except you have to give the bus company 24 hours notice which ones you’d like to catch, because they only have a few wheelchair accessible buses, and unless you make sure they’re using one of them on your route you’d need to get up three narrow steps with no rail. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/23 "2012-05-15T01:24:41Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > In Boston, that might be a much longer trip. The T isn’t perfect, but it works very well 98% of the time. The last time I was in Boston, we used the T to get to Fenway Park for a game. We were coming in from the 'burbs, so we boarded the Red Line at Alewife and transferred to the Green Line at Park Street. Despite the fact that there was a game and the majority of riders needed a train that went to Kenmore, they kept sending a high frequency of E trains, which is the one Green Line route that splits off before Kenmore. We were in disbelief. The DC Metro is no great shakes (half the elevators are broken at any given point, real fun for the disabled), but when the Nationals have a game they at least run more trains through that stop more frequently. It’s basic common sense. Apparently not on the T. On the thread topic, I have a friend with a power wheelchair that can rise up on 2 wheels and do stairs with the help of gyroscopes. But those Green Line cars have stairs that are so steep and narrow that I doubt it could handle them. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/24 "2012-05-15T12:40:32Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > The last time I was in Boston, we used the T to get to Fenway Park for a game. We were coming in from the 'burbs, so we boarded the Red Line at Alewife and transferred to the Green Line at Park Street. Despite the fact that there was a game and the majority of riders needed a train that went to Kenmore, they kept sending a high frequency of E trains, which is the one Green Line route that splits off before Kenmore. We were in disbelief. The DC Metro is no great shakes (half the elevators are broken at any given point, real fun for the disabled), but when the Nationals have a game they at least run more trains through that stop more frequently. It’s basic common sense. Apparently not on the T. So you take the E to Symphony, and walk from there. Maybe an extra 5-7 minutes, and a nice walk through the Fens. Just don’t jingle your keys. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/25 "2012-05-15T13:00:16Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Nope. The ramp thing would only reach to step number two, so it was just one step to be lowered down to reach the ramp. It was only one step after the T officials finally decided to put the ramp there. Once that was there then everyone was happy to help. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/26 "2012-05-15T13:14:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah. All I’m seeing is how it took a trainload of people half an hour to get a wheelchair down three steps. Why would they listen to the T employees, anyway? They don’t work for them. What, they’re going to call the cops for helping out a girl in a wheelchair? I can’t tell you what was in anyone else’s mind, but I can tell you what was in mine. For one thing, I was simply baffled that they couldn’t handle such a simple task. For another, there was some level of seeking permission. As much as we’d all like to think that we don’t need it, there’s a social dynamic when civilians and government people in uniforms make a decision together – we look to the people in uniforms to lead us. Another thing is that I wanted to honor the girl’s wishes. If she’d asked to be lifted down all thre steps, I would have been one of the first to volunteer. But that’s not what she was asking for. And lastly, the stairs were awfully steep and narrow. I was wondering about the logistics of it. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/27 "2012-05-15T13:19:26Z")
Anyone who thinks that wheelchair users are frail and can’t do stuff needs to watch a few minute of wheelchair rugby, aka Murderball. I work with a guy who’s in a wheelchair, and he does all the “dangerous” stuff mentioned on this thread. The first time I saw him go down an escalator, he took one look at the :eek: look on my face and said “What’s the worse that can happen? I break my neck?” (he had indeed already broken his neck, thus the wheelchair) But being around someone in a wheelchair really makes the whole “accessible” thing hit home. People in wheelchairs wait around a lot, per the OP. They also get shuffled off to the elevator that’s around the corner and down a dark hallway, or misled by that restaurant you want to go to being in a “historical” building and therefore not under the same accessibility laws (and thus, the guy in the wheelchair can’t get in…) or whatever. It’s like it’s not bad enough to have to be in a wheelchair, but certain situations seem to go out of their way to make it even harder. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/28 "2012-05-15T13:25:05Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I can’t tell you what was in anyone else’s mind, but I can tell you what was in mine. For one thing, I was simply baffled that they couldn’t handle such a simple task. For another, there was some level of seeking permission. As much as we’d all like to think that we don’t need it, there’s a social dynamic when civilians and government people in uniforms make a decision together – we look to the people in uniforms to lead us. Another thing is that I wanted to honor the girl’s wishes. If she’d asked to be lifted down all thre steps, I would have been one of the first to volunteer. But that’s not what she was asking for. And lastly, the stairs were awfully steep and narrow. I was wondering about the logistics of it. I dunno, maybe it’s \*\*Alessan \*\*an I sharing some kind of uniquely Israeli “no-BS” POV, but if this had happened on an Israeli bus the woman would be off the bus and on her way before the driver or any other staff present would even have time to \*\*\*think \*\*\*about objecting to a dozen people helping her down and off. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/29 "2012-05-15T13:44:58Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I can’t tell you what was in anyone else’s mind, but I can tell you what was in mine. For one thing, I was simply baffled that they couldn’t handle such a simple task. For another, there was some level of seeking permission. As much as we’d all like to think that we don’t need it, there’s a social dynamic when civilians and government people in uniforms make a decision together – we look to the people in uniforms to lead us. Another thing is that I wanted to honor the girl’s wishes. If she’d asked to be lifted down all thre steps, I would have been one of the first to volunteer. But that’s not what she was asking for. And lastly, the stairs were awfully steep and narrow. I was wondering about the logistics of it. An isolated incident of this sort may be simply an isolated incident. On the other hand, when one sees things of that sort happening over and over again, one begins to wonder whether the concept of a nanny state is taking over. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/30 "2012-05-15T13:50:32Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > An isolated incident of this sort may be simply an isolated incident. On the other hand, when one sees things of that sort happening over and over again, one begins to wonder whether the concept of a nanny state is taking over. How so? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/31 "2012-05-15T13:59:37Z")
I’m suprised no man offered to pick her up and carry her off the train while someone else took the wheelchair off. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/32 "2012-05-15T14:51:05Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > I dunno, maybe it’s \*\*Alessan \*\*an I sharing some kind of uniquely Israeli “no-BS” POV, but if this had happened on an Israeli bus the woman would be off the bus and on her way before the driver or any other staff present would even have time to \*\*\*think \*\*\*about objecting to a dozen people helping her down and off. Same if you get the right bunch of Spaniards, but get a different lot and oi vey, they could still be at it… I know a couple who’d get drenched in the gentlest of rains, because they wouldn’t be able to decide whether to open the umbrella or walk out of the rain. My brother, his wife and the friends they met in their honeymoon stunned the waiters in several Cancun restaurants when the waiters said the tables “could not be put together” and the Spaniards demonstrated that yes, they could. My WAG is the waiters were actually talking about procedure - the Spaniards took it as a reference to the laws of physics. Once the tables had been put together, the waiters had no problem serving the whole group at once, though. > [@Hampshire](#): > > I’m suprised no man offered to pick her up and carry her off the train while someone else took the wheelchair off. That’s actually more complicated than taking her and the chair at the same time, unless the lady happens to be tiny. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/33 "2012-05-15T15:12:19Z")
The idea of carrying her down three steps, with or without her chair, seemed pretty unsafe. When she asked for what she asked for, she knew what she was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/34 "2012-05-15T15:36:52Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > The idea of carrying her down three steps, with or without her chair, seemed pretty unsafe. When she asked for what she asked for, she knew what she was talking about. OK, I guess I can see that – nobody would have tried to carry her off the bus, here, _without her consent_. OTOH, I think most Israeli wheelchair-bound people would quickly agree (or even ask) to be helped off by general members of the public, once they realized that a more “official” solution was not forthcoming. Which is not to say that they wouldn’t fume about lack of accessibility before, during and after… (and rightly so) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/35 "2012-05-15T18:10:50Z")
All I know is this would never happen if it was me in this situation. I would have just hopped myself down the steps in my chair. It’s a tremedously valuable skill to learn for anyone in a wheelchair (who has the physical abilities necessary to perform the feat). I can do it for up to three steps; anything more and I am too wary of an accident. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/36 "2012-05-15T18:29:46Z")
**Ambivalid** , how do you manage that? Do you lean back so that you’re balanced on the back wheels? Are extra narrow steps a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/37 "2012-05-15T23:18:55Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > All I know is this would never happen if it was me in this situation. I would have just hopped myself down the steps in my chair. It’s a tremedously valuable skill to learn for anyone in a wheelchair (who has the physical abilities necessary to perform the feat). I can do it for up to three steps; anything more and I am too wary of an accident. If you had an accident while doing so, would you sue the train company? Because a lot of people would. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/38 "2012-05-15T23:36:56Z")
I’ve helped people in wheelchairs down steps before. Three men can easily do it safely. We had a power failure at work and had to help a lady downstairs. She preferred staying in her chair. So we popped her up in a wheelie, and backed her down one step at a time. With 3 guys it wasn’t hard at all. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > That’s what I’m thinking. I’m surprised 2 or 4 people didn’t just grab the chair and hoist it down the couple of steps. It would have taken a matter of seconds and they could have done it while the employees “protested”. If something happened, the employees would have been in the clear, but I can’t imagine it would have. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/39 "2012-05-16T00:57:59Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > **Ambivalid** , how do you manage that? Do you lean back so that you’re balanced on the back wheels? Are extra narrow steps a problem? Yes, you must be proficient with wheelies before you try such a thing. And you gotta practice going down on a single step so you get comfortable with being able to control your balance as you bounce from step to ground; and then just go for it. It takes a bit of _fuck it_ in order to get past the fear of that first time but once you realize it’s quite easy, it’s nothing. Narrow steps just mean you must take all the stairs you plan on going down in one go; there is no stopping at each step; as you hit-or bounce-on that first step you control it and keep on going down to the next step, etc. I haven’t gone past three, though (so I probably shouldn’t say it’s _nothing_ lol). ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921/40 "2012-05-16T01:03:44Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > If you had an accident while doing so, would you sue the train company? Because a lot of people would. Fuck no. It’s all on me; the train company would bear no responsibility for my accident. I would be doing it _despite_ what the train officials were advising; so most certainly not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-wheelchair-story/621921.md?page=3)