# A woman becoming US president for the first time - has the thunder been stolen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** kamala-harris\ **Created:** [October 26, 2024, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246 "2024-10-26T07:32:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/41 "2024-10-26T21:14:12Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I remember a lot of people saying about Hillary “I’d love to have a female president, I just don’t want it to be _her_.” Yeah, 16 years of Republican lies about her will do that. I consider her one of the best prepared presidential candidates in US history. May Comey roast in hell! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/42 "2024-10-26T21:14:31Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m seeing huge optimism. Personally, I am very optimistic that Harris will continue running an excellent campaign that will be studied in political science courses. The problem is, this is counterbalanced by extreme pessimism that the stupid broken country will look at her excellent candidacy and shrug and elect Jabba the Wingnut anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/43 "2024-10-26T23:10:12Z")
I do think the “thunder” has been stolen, and it’s too bad. > [@Irishman](#): > > If Harris were running in a pre-2016 environment, the opponent would be a traditional Republican, and there wouldn’t be such drama over the outcome. > > Hell, and this is just a gut feeling, if we could shift time and make this Harris the 2016 candidate, I bet she would easily have won, even as “the first woman”. I think Hillary Hate was a real factor in the 2016 outcome by demotivating Dem turnout, and Harris doesn’t carry that baggage. Actually I think it’s the opposite; if Harris had been in Clinton’s place the tsunami of hate that put trump into office would have been even bigger, since she’s both a woman _and_ non-white. A double threat to the bigots. The difference is now people both have the experience of the Trump presidency, and are no longer under the illusion that there’s _no way_ the US would elect somebody like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/44 "2024-10-27T00:09:11Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Actually I think it’s the opposite; if Harris had been in Clinton’s place the tsunami of hate that put trump into office would have been even bigger, since she’s both a woman _and_ non-white. A double threat to the bigots. > > The difference is now people both have the experience of the Trump presidency, and are no longer under the illusion that there’s _no way_ the US would elect somebody like Trump. This is a really good analysis and I hope it’s enough. But I will say, though – remembering how Obama permanently and catastrophically broke the brains of white people, at least he’s a man. Even at the deep lizard-brain level where racism operates, Obama was at least a man, and not threatening in the emasculating kind of way. I fear the backlash is going to be 10x worse when it’s a Black woman. Here I’m thinking more of racists taking it out on vulnerable citizens, Harris will have the Secret Service. But there again, the Secret Service is mainly white dude cop/military types who have been living in a right-wing information environment that’s starkly more unhinged and violent than during the Obama years. Will they protect her when it matters? Would they even pull aside the velvet rope to let a shooter near? I think Harris is about to walk into the riskiest term of office since Lincoln. But, one thing at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/45 "2024-10-27T04:08:43Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Will they protect her when it matters? Would they even pull aside the velvet rope to let a shooter near? I think Harris is about to walk into the riskiest term of office since Lincoln. But, one thing at a time. Wow, that’s pretty damn cynical. I want to say their professionalism means they don’t care who the President is, it’s their duty and they wouldn’t sign up for it and certainly wouldn’t be put on the security detail if that was in question. But I don’t have any special insight. But hey, if they can protect Trump - twice - I’m confident they would do their best to protect Harris. But their professionalism is at least a little in question after they let a guy get off shots at Trump. So there is that counterpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/46 "2024-10-27T06:04:55Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I want to say their professionalism This professionalism? > **[Secret Service agents assigned to Biden, Harris suspended amid bribery...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/secret-service-agents-suspended-bribery-plot-170142622.html)** > > Four Secret Service agents — including members of President Biden's and Vice President Kamala Harris's protective details — have been suspended after two men charged with impersonating federal officers allegedly bribed the agents with expensive... > [@](#): > > means they don’t care who the President is There was a fair amount of coverage in the first months of the Biden administration that they had to reshuffle agents because they didn’t trust their loyalty. It’s all innuendo and nothing concrete was ever proven (as far as I’m aware) but here’s one example. > **[Biden worries the Secret Service may be loyal to Trump, according to a new book](https://www.vox.com/2023/1/13/23553350/joe-biden-chris-whipple-book)** > > The biggest revelations from Chris Whipple’s new look at the Biden administration. It’s arguable the extent to which the Secret Service was already struggling when Trump came into office, but it’s clear that when he left they were a damaged organization. To tie this back to the subject of the thread — in the increasingly unlikely event Harris wins, she would be wise not to trust them without very strict oversight and close supervision. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/47 "2024-10-27T06:56:16Z")
It would be nice if America was able to enter the 20th century and elect a woman president, but I’ll believe it when I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/48 "2024-10-27T11:57:46Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > America was able to enter the 20th century Snerk. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/49 "2024-10-27T12:00:15Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > It’s arguable the extent to which the Secret Service was already struggling when Trump came into office, but it’s clear that when he left they were a damaged organization. Good counterpoints. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/50 "2024-10-27T12:37:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > With Kamala all but certain to sweep to power in 10 days’ time, there are two things that have sucked out some of the energy about the history that will be made. Lord, I wish I shared your degree of certainty. Yeah, the reality that there’s a significant chance that we’ll be waking up ten days from now, knowing that we’ve just kissed our democracy goodbye, overshadows everything else right now. We will be in one of two very different universes then, depending on how it goes. In Universe A, we’ll be sighing with relief, then asking ourselves how and why our institutions failed us to such a degree over the past four years that it came down to a coin toss…_again_. In Universe Z, we’ll be asking ourselves questions like: do we stay, or do we flee to a safer country? If we stay, do we resist or try to avoid attracting attention to ourselves? So right now the possibility of “yay, a woman President at last!” is about the farthest thing from my mind. Can think about that if, when we open the box next week, it turns out that [the cat is alive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat). ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/51 "2024-10-27T19:46:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > do we flee to a safer country? I know a lot of Americans talk about moving to Canada. But bear in mind that if Trump wins, we (Canada) will not necessarily be that safe, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/52 "2024-10-28T04:32:48Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > none of his ancestors ever picked cotton Actually, there’s a strong possibility [one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Punch_(slave)) did - on his _mother’s_ side. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/53 "2024-10-28T16:37:56Z")
Amusingly, yesterday, the New York Times ran a [story](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/27/insider/madam-president-hillary-clinton.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Vk4.4FMm._cqShWfcMIej&smid=url-share) (gift link) describing the mockup that had been prepared in 2016 in the event of a win by Hilary Clinton, with a banner headline on page A1 > MADAM PRESIDENT > CLINTON DEFEATS TRUMP IN HISTORIC VICTORY; > DEMOCRATS IN CLOSE RACE TO RETAKE SENATE And various articles were already written > Susan Dominus described the arc of Mrs. Clinton’s career. Susan Chira discussed the effects of a Clinton presidency on feminism. Nicholas Confessore and Megan Twohey wrote about the importance of political fund-raising among women. Vanessa Friedman decoded the messages conveyed by a president’s choice of clothing. Julie Hirschfeld Davis wondered what America would call the husband of a president. (“First gentleman? First mate? First dude?”) Amy Chozick untangled the relationship between Hillary and Bill Clinton. Jodi Kantor asked whether Mrs. Clinton’s presidency would transform the lives of American women. Jennifer Szalai prepared a bibliography. And Claire Cain Miller speculated about the style of governing that a woman would bring to the White House. But, yesterday’s piece notes, “In 2016, no special section was readied in case Donald J. Trump won.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/54 "2024-10-28T19:19:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But, yesterday’s piece notes, “In 2016, no special section was readied in case Donald J. Trump won.” Meanwhile the _New Yorker_ on the issue that went out that Monday very cleverly had an illustration of a commuter reading a newspaper where the headlines were: “Oh Sweet Jesus Please God No” “Anything But That” “Come On” ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/55 "2024-10-30T02:48:06Z")
That reminds me of one of the cleverest crossword puzzles in history, created before the 1996 presidential election, but published on Election Day. > **[The Clinton/Bob Dole Crossword — alaricstephen.com](http://www.alaricstephen.com/main-featured/2017/7/3/the-clintonbobdole-crossword)** > > The date was the 5th November 1996: the day of the US presidential election. The two candidates were in a close contest and the result was not yet clear. Out of this, an amazing crossword was compiled in the New York Times. One clue read, 39. The... Seven “down” clues (in addition to the big “across” one) each define two different words. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/56 "2024-10-30T21:43:31Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > I know a lot of Americans talk about moving to Canada. But And also bear in mind that it’s not that easy to get enough immigration points to move to Canada. If you are young, university educated, speak both French and English fluently and are in a sought after profession? Sure. Otherwise probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/57 "2024-10-31T01:12:22Z")
What if I told Canadian immigration authorities that I simply wanted to move to one of the least inhabited forested areas, build myself a log cabin and be a hermit? Would they figure that would at least be one more inhabitant of an otherwise barren wilderness? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/58 "2024-10-31T01:15:38Z")
They’d say "That’s nice, but we have freedom of movement in Canada, so this will not work. Please see the following page to see if you qualify for Express Entry. To get an invitation to apply, your CRS score must be above the minimum points score. [Comprehensive Ranking System (CRS) tool: skilled immigrants (Express Entry)](https://ircc.canada.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/crs-tool.asp) Alternatively, they might let you know that it’s illegal to feed the bears. Even if it is your own corpse. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2024, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/59 "2024-10-31T01:19:43Z")
Dang. And my Canadian politician friends are by now dead, retired or out of government… can’t even count on corruption to help. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2024, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246/60 "2024-10-31T02:06:24Z")
Canada ranks 12/180 on the corruption perceptions index. The US ranks 24/180. (Data from Transparency International) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-woman-becoming-us-president-for-the-first-time-has-the-thunder-been-stolen/1009246.md?page=4)