This is completely of topic of the initial OP, but well since jtgain brought it up and the thread seams to go this way now…
The healthcare system in the US is one of the best; the care can also be one of the best… But only if you can afford it.
There is certainly some of the best How-Know around, but it is also one of the cruellest around in the western world, due to the money driven system.
An Ambulance for the most part of Europe have besides the driver, professionally trained staff onboard, not just some random person driving the ambulance. Most of the time an actually ER doctor is driving with them or is in a separate car.
Talking about Helicopters, Airlift info from Germany, which should give you some idea about the whole thing:
of, cos…this is all 3…2…1… FREE to the citizens of Germany , just to rub it in a bit more… jt seams to be a bit bitter about it.
I don’t know where you are whynot, but this is completely inconsistent with my experience in California. I’ve never seen costs posted, most nurses I work with don’t know much about prices and are not encouraged to learn, when I went to my boss with a concern I was sternly told that it’s none of my business what the hosp charges.
I’m a nursing student in Chicago. My post was based on five hospital ERs as a patient (well, family member of a patient) in the last fiveish years and two hospitals as a student during clinicals in the last year. I hope California sees the light soon.
Free- maybe not entirely. NO.
The German Health-Insurance Tax (Krankenkasse) is quiet expensive.
While I used to live in Germany it was completely free, now it might be a bit different (I’m refering to the Ambulance).
In case of emergencies (car accidents, sickness etc…) the bill for transportation is usually paid by the Krankenkasse – still, no extra bill for it, I don’t think, they would get away with it.
However, there are cases, where people do get charged, if they want it for transportation of a patient with a broken leg and a simple taxi would have done the job or if they called for it themselves.
Just to clarify this. The length of time it took to get Princess Diana to hospital had nothing to do with either cost or whether it was a socialised medical system.
As others have pointed out, in 1997 (don’t know what happens now) French practice was for a physician to attend each accident in the specialist ambulance. The physician then attempted to stabilise the patient before transportation to hospital. This is very different from US practice where the ambulance is manned by a paramedic and will attempt to get the casualty to the hospital trauma room as quickly as possible. Now, there can be arguments about which is the better system but they have nothing to do with private or socialised medicine. This can be seen as the NHS in the UK uses the American system which led to much questioning of the apparent delay in arriving at hospital during the Diana and Dodi inquest. In fact the concensus view at the inquest was that under the British or American system Diana would not have made it to the hospital alive. Without the physician attending she would probably have died at the scene.
Oh, and there are plenty of air ambulances in the UK (and I assume France) but I very much doubt they would have got Diana to a city centre hospital any quicker than an ambulance (at 1 in the morning and with police motorcycle outriders!).
I’m with the Libertarians on this. I say we have the best healthcare system in the world until we see at least one other country that can demonstrate that they have a better system, with lower costs and better outcomes.
This is veering into GD territory, and I generally avoid going there due to the fact that I suck at debating and don’t really care to get into things that deeply, but… how do you define “best” and “better system/outcomes”?
Lower costs are easy: the per capita expenditure from governments on health care in countries with UHC is significantly lower than that of the US, even though it covers care for 100% of the population rather than just part of it. Out-of-pocket or point-of-service costs for the patients are also much lower, and usually free in most cases.
Better outcomes: Infant mortality rates? Countries with UHC are better than the US system. Life expectancy? Same thing.
Cancer treatments? It’s my understanding (though I don’t have a cite…I think I got this from my friend, a haematology nurse) that UHC allows for earlier detection and therefore earlier treatment and a better chance of remission since more people get regular medical checkups.
I’m not sure what types of treatments the average American can receive that I can’t get in Canada, or others can’t get in other countries with UHC.
There are probably stories of rare cases/rare illnesses where the treatment was available only at a specialized research hospital in the States or something (that kid, Maddox? cases like that), but I don’t think that’s a good measure of an entire health care system, since they are very rare occurrences and it’s probably not a surprise that only a few doctors have the knowledge or expertise to treat them. I think the measure of a healthcare system is what the average user has access to (and I know there is no average disease or injury, but consider then what most people in the country have access to if they need it).
So perhaps best refers to wait times? Sure, we (and other UHC countries) have a serious problem with that, especially for non-emergency treatment. But sooner or later, the patient does get seen, which IMHO is better than not being able to get treated because they can’t afford it.
I really don’t think our system is perfect…there are too many mistakes, delays and horror stories to believe that. But I do think the basic idea is right, and I just don’t understand what’s considered to be so good about the US system for most of the US population.
Are you honestly comparing an immediate need for emergency care to calling a plumber? Of course I’m going to pay more for calling my plumber for an emergency. But, if I don’t get it fixed right away, my LIFE isn’t in danger.
“Don’t use emergency services.” So basically, don’t get sick. Wonderful.
I’m sorry, I was making fun of Libertarians. I thought it was clear I was being sarcastic. The US is the only industrialist country in the world without UHC, we have the highest costs, and the worse results.
But then again, I have heard stuff like that during the recent health care debates (heck, someone came up with the idea of governmental Death Panels, and other people believe it!) so I just wasn’t sure.
I’m going to blame it on painkillers that were prescribed by my free doctor after my free hospital stay and follow up visits requiring a free MRI…cheap shot? yeah.