But didn’t you say that the child’s needs must come first? Having a mother in prison is likely to harm the child. There are any number of situations where we allow the crimes of a parent to negatively impact their children; why not this time? For that matter, why don’t we randomly pick someone to pay child support to orphans? It’d be unfair, but not more so than making someone who was forced into parenthood pay child support.
I would agree with you, in this case. However, given the amount of current common law and policy on keep a child with its closest blood relations, I don’t think the courts are willing to remove a child from its asshole, law-breaking mother’s home. In both the examples above, neither man pressed rape charges. It would be more interesting if the men had charged to women an equivalent amount as to what a Sperm Bank would have charged.
Should he have to? Heck no!
Will he have to? Yes. It is easy to prove it’s his DNA. It’s really hard to prove they never had sex.
I’m glad I’m a woman who takes birth control seriously. If I were a man I’d be scared to masturbate after reading threads like this one.
For the purposes of the hypothetical, let’s assume that it is stiplulated that they never had sex. Now, back to the question: Should he have to pay?
Absolutely not. He had as much to do with the conception as any other person in our society, and as such, he should be required to pay no more and no less for the child’s support as any other person in our society.
In other words, yes, he will help support the child, as a taxpayer if the mother requires help from governmental services.
Same thing goes for any other method of sperm collection that involves willing acts on the part of the woman and none on the part of the man. He should only pay as a generic member of society.
As before: He *should not * have to pay.
However, unless he’s got a hot lawyer he *will * have to pay.
From my limited reading, American courts are overly willing to make sure someone, preferably either the husband of the mother or the source-of-DNA pays support for the child. The man in your hypothetical will have to pay if this case goes to court. It’s not fair, it’s not right, but that’s the way I’d bet.
Your cheap shot was neither funny or clever. If you have a beef with someone, either take it to the BBQ Pit or keep it to yourself.
Um, I’m not sure how you’re interpreting that post, but I’m pretty sure it’s the one The Devil’s Grandmother mentions here. I.e., it’s an experiment, not a cheap shot.
Wow, thanks Sofis! I am very sorry to have caused an interruption. I’ve already written to the Moderator Czarcasm about it, so let’s go back to discussing the many uses of sperm, please.
Sofis said earlier; “For that matter, why don’t we randomly pick someone to pay child support to orphans? It’d be unfair, but not more so than making someone who was forced into parenthood pay child support.”
We are all “randomly” obliged to support orphans, as we all pay taxes that a teeny-tiny fraction of goes to pay for the foster-care and administration of state-run adoptions.
As for being forced into parenthood (there but for the grace of G-d go many of us) any system is going to be horribly unfair to either men or women. I’ve been trying to figure out a way to make it less unfair ever since the interesting and incredibly emotional thread about Hauss’s unexpectedly pregnant girlfriend. I have no dog in this fight, other than a SDMB induced worry that one of my husband’s ex-girlfriends might show up with a teenager who now wants to attend an expensive college :eek: . I wish I could think of a way that didn’t punish men, women or babies. When I do, y’ll can come laud me.
You could try to explain your other post in that light too! As long as we’re picking random people to stick with child support payments, why not pick
Ludovic…gotcha ya!
Guy accepts blow job from a virtual stranger in the hospital while visiting a sick relative, and the bitch turned around and impregnated herself with it?
The only person I feel sorry for in this situation is the baby. With two uncouth, common, low class parents such as that it’s hard to see how that poor child is going to have a snowball’s chance in hell.
Sure, he didn’t intend to make a baby. Lots of guys, though, are “forced” into fatherhood because they’re dumb enough to believe her when she says she’s on the Pill (or has had her tubes tied) and forego the condom. It’s shitty, yes: both sexes should be up front and honest with each other about birth control (or lack thereof). Don’t want a baby? Keep your pants on, then, and make sure that whoever you’re fooling around with can be trusted. And considering guys can end up paying child support for children that aren’t even theirs, I think if I were a man there is NO WAY I’d touch a woman or even consider getting an erection around one until I had known her a VERY long time and was positive she wasn’t planning on making me her 18-year paycheck.
And this “as any male would, I did not refuse” stuff is just classic. He has no morals, so that means no guys out there have 'em? I’d like to think most men are smart enough to, oh, want to get to know a woman first before she blows him, condom or no, and have enough self control to stop and think “hmm. Yeah, a blow would be good, but maybe having it done while I’m visiting Grandma isn’t the best time. Maybe we should have dinner first.” This man should consider child support his own personal Stupidity Tax.
Not that the woman is blameless, don’t get me wrong, she’s a POS too and what really sucks is she could very well end up being one of these women that uses the child support for herself (would we be THAT surprised if that was her plan all along?). Her actions certainly don’t indicate that she has her baby’s best interests at heart, considering she intentionally got knocked up by a man she hardly knew AND sneaked around to do it.
This is sad, sad, sad. That poor little baby 
That’s quite a jump in logic there. So just because he accepted a BJ, that means he has no morals? What?
That makes no damn sense. The guy took virtually every logical precaution one could take. I don’t see how accepting a woman’s offer for oral sex is a reflection of one’s morals or values.
Yeah, claiming that a guy should know better than to get a BJ using protection since there are always scum out there is blaming the victim.
You know, it’s really not that hard nor expensive to buy sperm from a sperm bank. Only a couple of hundred dollars per shot. It seems a cheap price to avoid the type of vitriol being slung by so many for trying to choose an alternative route. which is cheaper, but ultimately makes you look morally bankrupt!
Oh, and btw, the person who pays child support is not “picking up the tab” for the child as so many have suggested. Someone tell me how my daughter’s $290 per month (which didn’t start until she was 11 years old) pays for one-quarter of the housing, food, heat and utilities for my two-person family and also half of my child’s education, transportation, medical, and miscellaneous costs. It doesn’t. I’m totally happy to mother my daughter as a single person (and would’ve been perfectly fine if the child support hadn’t finally appeared), but I just wanted to correct the common misconception (no pun intended) that the support-paying parent is somehow “picking up the tab” or paying some sort of bill that actually supports the child. The measly amount that most custodial parents wind up with would not really be capable of doing this rather formidable task.
Whoa there! The women in these scenarios did deceitful and possibly illegal things to get a baby. In my limited experience, people who want a baby pretty badly are the ones who make good, if slightly overprotective, parents. The women in both these scenarios could be excellent parents, for all we know. They have taken steps to get pregnant and are trying to make sure they have the financial resources to raise the child. I admit I’m struggling to see a silver lining here, but there might be one.
I’d also agree with **ggurl ** that anybody who thinks $45 a week pays for a child’s raising is either living in a seriously third world country or completely delusional. Most of my friends are annually paying more for daycare than I paid for college.
Come again? Are you actually justifying this malicious bitch, who is set out to ruin this poor man’s life? And you consider that as a strong step forward for good parenting?
If I went and robbed a bank, I too would be “[making] sure * have the financial resources to raise the child,” but somehow, I don’t think that would make me a good parent, let alone a legal one, yet that’s essentially what this woman has done.
No, Duderdude2. Of course not. I think these women’s behaviors are reprehensible. The rapist should be in jail and the consensual blowjobber *should not * get child support from the man she took advantage of.
I am trying to say that being a bad person does not necessarily make you a bad parent. One of the biggest assholes I know is also one of the best, most involved, concerned parents I know. In the same fashion I might be a crappy coworker, but a great daughter.
I have no knowledge that the rapist or the consensual blowjobber set out to ruin their victims’ lives, finically or otherwise.
I don’t think so. Don’t you think if she’s this dishonest and manipulative she might treat her child the same way?
Ok, that makes a bit more sense. While I may completely disagree, I can somewhat respect that point.
However, that should not be used for justification of the criminal act performed (not that you have, but speaking generally). What she did is inexcusable, and all the more disgusting that she was rewarded with child support.
It makes no difference ethically for the man. 12 months * 300$ a month * 18 years is $64800, which is a pretty big tab to pay for something that happened to you completely out of the blue.
Assuming the woman would not be destitute in having to pay this extra money, making the man pay for this is making him “pick up the tab” for part of the raising of the child.
Furthermore, $300 a month seems extremely close to the level at which it would be possible to scrimp out a little bit for yourself if you were as uncaring about the effects of actions on the rest of humanity like, oh, people who try to steal $64,000 from innocent people. Wouldn’t surprise me if those kind of people would be the same kind of people to skinflint here and there, despite what Devil says: although there are certainly exceptions, in general your ethics in one situation does have some influence in other areas.*
And in some areas, the amount of child support is determined by the supporting parent’s income. I’m not sure if there’s a cap on the support, but you cold run a nice scam if you not only really did want a child, but managed to steal sperm from a well-off man. Could make you money. Not enough to pay you a lot per hour if you look at it as a job but it would be an extra bonus to consider if you wanted the child anyway.
*and just cause you want a child doesn’t mean you’ll treat it well: you could want it to satisfy some maternal instinct, or you could want it as a toy or to garner sympathy for others, etc etc.