# A word from SA regarding the "Insanity" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-from-sa-regarding-the-insanity-thread/468853 "2008-10-21T04:00:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 18
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-from-sa-regarding-the-insanity-thread/468853/18 "2008-10-21T07:58:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > But I was raised to give as good as I get, and my onscreen personna here reflects that. You call me stupid and stubborn for not coming around to your way of thinking when you offer this or that cite or argument, but how many of you have done a 180 in your politics because of this or that reasonable cite and argument posted by **Sam Stone** or **Bricker**? Your problem here, as so often, is that you confuse political positions, on the one hand, with questions of fact and evidence, on the other. I have never, not once in all my interactions with you, had any expectation that you would do “a 180 in your politics” as a result of our debates. I’m not trying to change your politics when i argue with you. While i tend to believe, along with friend **elucidator** , that simple recitation of the facts tends to support my left-liberal worldview, i’m well aware that not everyone shares this position, and i can respect people who hold different politics even when i know that we will never see eye to eye on certain things. In fact, i find that i have some of my most enjoyable debates with people who hold different political opinions from me, but who are intelligent and honest enough to recognize that there needs to be a good faith attempt to address questions of fact and evidence. I’ve had some good debates in real life, and on these boards, with just such people. Let me state this unequivocally: the problem i have with you is not your politics. I disagree vehemently with most of your politics, and it is very unlikely that i would ever agree with you on many (probably most) of the normative issues that make up our respective worldviews, but i do not begrudge you your politics, and i really have no interest in changing them. My problem with you, and the reason i have come to treat you like an imbecilic shit-flinging monkey, is that you’re not an honest debater. You set up criteria for people to follow in debate, and then fail to follow them yourself; you accuse people of making unsupported assertions, yet such assertions constitute the sole basis of half of your arguments; you refuse to offer evidence or citations for your positions because you find them inconvenient, yet only a bit over an hour ago you made an indignant demand for a citation in another thread. Debating you is like trying to nail jelly to a wall, because you skate blithely past any refutation or rebuttal based on evidence or serious and reasoned argument. I still feel the way i did last year, when i wrote [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8493038&highlight=goalposts#post8493038): > [@](#): > > I’d accuse you of moving the goalposts to suit your needs, but that would be an understatement of the mendacity of your debating style. > > First you move the goalposts. > > Then you dig up the goalposts and hide them around behind the bleachers. > > Then you come back and fill in the hole where the goalposts were, and, while tamping down the last of the earth with your shovel, deny that the goalposts ever existed at all and insist that this has always been a cow paddock. > > Then, while your opposition wonders what the hell is going on, you put the goalposts back in place again and start shouting at him to hurry up and kick the ball already. In fact, that post that i linked was actually something of a watershed for me, in terms of how i think you on this board. Take a look at it. In that post, i made a fairly long, detailed set of responses to a series of questions that you had asked of me specifically. You directed your questions directly at me, and asked me to answer them. Despite the fact that i knew i was pissing into the wind, i did my best to answer them honestly, including evidence and rational argument. And you didn’t even see fit to make a response. Now, i’m not vain enough to think that every post i make on these boards is worthy of being engaged by every other doper. But we—you and i—were debating these issues, and despite being unwilling to offer any evidence or solid argument of your own, you insisted that i make a direct answer to your queries. When you do something like that, and when the other person indulges you, i think that good taste and good manners dictate a response, at the very least. But your silence on the issue reflects your whole “debating” strategy, in which you cherry-pick short statements out of long, complex arguments and make no attempt to address the arguments themselves. When you asked those questions of me, **John Mace** responded to you by saying: > [@Der Trihs, any chance of you giving it a rest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/der-trihs-any-chance-of-you-giving-it-a-rest/400767/69): > > My God, what a stupid post. You really are an idiot. As in so many other things, it seems that **John Mace** saw the issue more clearly than i did. I love debating with people who disagree with me (in fact, **John Mace** is one of those people with whom i can have an impassioned and intelligent and respectful debate even when we strongly disagree), but what you do is not debating. You claim to love civility, but even when you’re not using abusive language, you’re still a dishonest shit-flinger, and deserve to be treated as such. You talk about people approaching you reasonably and respectfully, but in order to do that, i’d have to believe you capable of reason, and worthy of respect. I don’t. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-from-sa-regarding-the-insanity-thread/468853)._