# A word Tom **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 28, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044 "2010-05-28T05:59:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/41 "2010-06-01T17:53:04Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > But I want you to consider that the situation is not as clear cut as you think it is. I do not believe that the situation was clear cut, at all. It was a judgment call I employed to make sure that that thread did not jump the rails. The thread has not jumped the rails–whether because of or despite my intervention I would not hazard a guess. **The Second Stone** asked what my purpose was and I answered him. You have asked a couple further questions and I have answered them. I am making no profound case that I have posted a totally correct and irreversible opinion, (other than indirectly indicating that there is nothing for me to “reverse”). > [@Irishman](#): > > Would you have said anything if, instead of using the phrase “moral turpitude” he had said “an educated person who continues to make the argument that the Civil War was about states rights is being disengenuous.”? Not at all. That sentiment or something like it was expressed by multiple posters in multiple posts in that thread with no Mod reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/42 "2010-06-01T18:47:54Z")
**tomndebb** said: > [@](#): > > I do not believe that the situation was clear cut, at all. It was a judgment call I employed to make sure that that thread did not jump the rails. The thread has not jumped the rails–whether because of or despite my intervention I would not hazard a guess. **The Second Stone** asked what my purpose was and I answered him. You have asked a couple further questions and I have answered them. I am making no profound case that I have posted a totally correct and irreversible opinion, (other than indirectly indicating that there is nothing for me to “reverse”). Fair enough (to me). I can accept your answer. And right, there’s nothing to reverse. I suppose **The Second Stone** expects a statement like “You are right, you did nothing wrong, I shouldn’t have admonished you” or something. _I_ can accept it was a judgment call and there’s not even an official warning. > [@](#): > > Not at all. That sentiment or something like it was expressed by multiple posters in multiple posts in that thread with no Mod reaction. I guess I’m just wondering what about “moral turpitude” turns the argument into a specific case. Or is it just that the accusation is leaning toward confrontational and harsh? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/43 "2010-06-01T19:46:51Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I guess I’m just wondering what about “moral turpitude” turns the argument into a specific case. Or is it just that the accusation is leaning toward confrontational and harsh? Since the phrase “moral turpitude” was introduced to the thread in the context of telling one poster to refrain from attacking other posters, an almost immediate response that another poster would, indeed, use that phrase in regards to a philosophical position looked too much, to me, like a futherance of the personal attack. It was the connection, not the definition, that evoked my response. This is how the series appeared to me: **PosterA** : _People who believe X are doodyheads._ **PosterB** : _People who believe X are just misinformed._ **PosterC** : _People who believe X are nudniks._ **PosterD** : _People who believe X are terrible, evil people who should roast in hell._ **Mod** : _PosterD, it is not appropriate to say posters who believe in X should roast in hell; there is no reason to assume that they are meshuganas._ **PosterE** : _Well, **I** would call believers in X meshuganas._ **Mod** : _PosterE, let’s not make this personal._ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/44 "2010-06-01T21:24:44Z")
Something like 90% or more of all complaints about modding seem to be about just one particular mod, don’t they? But it’s certainly possible that it’s _everyone else_ who has a problem, not him, I guess. Gotta disagree about **tom** ’s modding being driven by politics, either way, though. He’s just capricious, and defensive as all get-out when challenged on it. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/45 "2010-06-01T21:32:59Z")
**Irishman** , your clarification for me that the states’ rights issue was limited in this discussion to the Civil War period is appreciated. **The Second Stone** , I pass no further judgments on your comments about states’ rights. But may I suggest that you lose vital communication when you pack too much information into one sentence as in the following: > [@](#): > > **The Second Stone** : **Tomndebb** is not looking at the written evidence, the only evidence here, and presumably off in moderator land of their private snark board are making things up and imputing motives that are non-existent in their effort to circle the moderator wagon because you cannot say that “states rights” apologists are morally and intellectually bankrupt slavery apologists because it will offend the sensibilities of posters who happen to fall within that group of apologists, even though I am clearly and unequivocally including the blowhards on pundit radio and TV who push the states rights crap (presumably as I don’t listen to that stuff) and teach it in schools. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/46 "2010-06-01T23:52:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **PosterD** : _People who believe X are terrible, evil people who should roast in hell._ > **Mod** : _PosterD, it is not appropriate to say posters who believe in X should roast in hell; there is no reason to assume that they are meshuganas._ > **PosterE** : _Well, **I** would call believers in X meshuganas._ > **Mod** : _PosterE, let’s not make this personal._[/INDENT] But I did not say they were “terrible, evil people who should roast in hell.” That is what we call a straw man. I didn’t say it. I said “moral turpitude” in the meaning of intellectually dishonest in an immoral cause. Which it is. Spreading racist lies might be an evil act, but the people who do it are not necessarily evil by nature. Nor do I believe in hell and roasting in it for myself or others, doers of evil acts or people who are evil by nature. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/47 "2010-06-01T23:53:36Z")
Zoe, that is the most masterful sentence ever written in the English language. Tight, compact, yet sprawling and all over the map, full of sound and fury, signifying everything. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/48 "2010-06-02T04:25:10Z")
Here is a thread where DSeid called me an asshole in GD and Tomndebb shrugs it off. > [@](#): > > Yeah, and stupid asshole or worse is what they call people who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about and attempt to insult people who we respect over in The Pit. What of it? If we were in the Pit I’d call someone doing that that or worse but we are not, so I won’t, and we also are not on Slashdot. So Slashdot etiquette don’t matter none do it? From the context it is absolutely clear that he is talking about me and no one else or any amorphous group of people. It is the same situation and Tomndebb tolerating someone flinging “asshole” in the Pit at a poster. From the context of the two threads, it is really apparent that I would have been warned or banned had I referred to a whole group, or a someone, as an “asshole” in that manner. It is a double standard, plain and simple. And here in this thread [Did FDR Will and Allow Pearl Harbor? Srdja Trifkovic's Take on the Conspiracy Theory - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=499597) I carp about conservative in general making shit up about FDR and Pearl Harbor and comparing it to the Aug 2001 memo Bush got. Tomndebb again smacks me down for generally bashing conservatives who do this (I don’t bash conservatives who don’t). Yet in this thread, he admits that general remonstrating of a group is allowed. The only two consistent things in these threads is that Tomndebb protects conservatives calling names and smacks me down for much less. There really cannot be any dispute that Tomndebb is holding different people and groups to much different standards. I object to it. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/49 "2010-06-02T04:26:53Z")
Thank you, **tomndebb** , that really clarifies it for me. Now I look at **The Second Stone** ’s response, and what it says to me is even though he used the second part of your statement, _he_ didn’t make the mental connection that that implied the first part of your statement. Ahh, the joys of communication. **ElvisL1ves** said: > [@](#): > > Something like 90% or more of all complaints about modding seem to be about just one particular mod, don’t they? But it’s certainly possible that it’s _everyone else_ who has a problem, not him, I guess. I’m pretty sure **twickster** is a she. Oh, not who you meant? No, **Tubadiva** is a she, too. [TubaDiva, are you kidding me?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557113) Oh, you meant **Czarcasm** and his penchant for not explaining his moderating actions. No? **Marley23** and his PM attacks? Well you can’t mean **CK Dexter Haven** , nobody complains about him. I give up. Seriously, no moderator gets 90% of the complaints. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/50 "2010-06-02T05:14:38Z")
**The Second Stone** said: > [@](#): > > Here is a thread where DSeid called me an asshole in GD and Tomndebb shrugs it off. Link to **tomndebb** ’s post [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11221057&postcount=172](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11221057&postcount=172) So I read the relevant parts of that thread, and the thing is, you are the one who first dropped insults. You are the one who said > [@](#): > > Anonymous Coward is what they call posters over at Slashdot who decline to post by their own names or a made up name. You were specifically talking about **Una Persson**. **DSeid** exactly copied your phrasing. Notice that **tomndebb** did not warn either of you. Looks pretty evenhanded to me. > [@](#): > > And here in this thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=499597](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=499597) I carp about conservative in general making shit up about FDR and Pearl Harbor and comparing it to the Aug 2001 memo Bush got. Tomndebb again smacks me down for generally bashing conservatives who do this (I don’t bash conservatives who don’t). You misunderstand. What he said: > [@](#): > > Nothing in this thread requires that it be hijacked into an acrimonious squabble over current politics. If you have a need to link WWII to the Iraq War, open a new thread. **tomndebb** did not “bash you down” for attacking generic conservatives, tomndebb moderated you for making an off-topic political taunt with a likelihood for derailing the discussion. **The Second Stone** said: > [@](#): > > The only two consistent things in these threads is that Tomndebb protects conservatives calling names and smacks me down for much less. There’s nothing consistent between the moderations because they are separate incidents with separate reasons with the only common factor being that you made a comment that drew moderation from **tomndebb**. Any pattern you observe is confirmation bias, not inherent. > [@](#): > > There really cannot be any dispute that Tomndebb is holding different people and groups to much different standards. I object to it. I do dispute it. The events you cite have different explanations than the one you claim. You have not made your case. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/51 "2010-06-02T05:25:21Z")
OK, The Second Stone, I am willing to ignore all the false charges and misinterpretations you have posted for the last couple of days, but if you are going to go back and start dragging up ancient history and twisting that, I suppose I need to address it. Your feud with **DSeid** occurred on pages 3 and 4 in the [New and improved nuclear plants may cost more than expected.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=520154&page=3) thread. It began in an acrimonious exchange with you insulting several other posters, then hiding one of your insults behind terminology that they employ at Slashdot. **DSeid** responded inappropriately to you. I had looked at the thread prior to your actions and had not been back to it during your feud. When I returned, I found both of you going at each other and you making a big deal about his insults while ignoring your own; I told you both to stop, and I issued no Warnings. In the second thread (to which you actually did provide a link), you will note that all I did was point out that you had entered a potential hijack to the thread and that you could discuss that separate theme in a different thread. Your claim that I smacked you down for “generally bashing conservatives” is pretty silly in light of my actual statement > [@Did FDR Will and Allow Pearl Harbor? Srdja Trifkovic's Take on the Conspiracy Theory](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-fdr-will-and-allow-pearl-harbor-srdja-trifkovics-take-on-the-conspiracy-theory/479197/29): > > Nothing in this thread requires that it be hijacked into an acrimonious squabble over current politics. If you have a need to link WWII to the Iraq War, open a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/52 "2010-06-02T06:04:51Z")
It was bullshit then and it is bullshit now. You ignore completely your own moderating, of which I am complaining. The fact is in different threads you behave differently toward different posters, based on point of view. You didn’t go back at those other threads before now because they were not then evidence staring you in the face of your bias. Either it’s against the rules to call someone an insulting name, or it isn’t. Your little unwritten explicit tradition “directly” insulting rule was not one you cared to enforce when someone called me an “asshole” in GD. And that was a pretty unequivocal by anyone’s reckoning. It was direct. It was applied to me and only me. And then, as now, you pretend to be obtuse to that, where suddenly you can reach into my mind and invent an indirect insult to an individual poster where I intended none, and elevate your own use of a phrase “moral turpitude” above asshole. Now in most people’s minds “asshole” is a more coarse pejorative then the descriptive phrase “moral turpitude”. Your moderating is filled with double standards. I can’t refer to a whole class of people as engaged in intellectual whoring when they are, and you letting people refer to one person as an “asshole”. The sun will rise tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/53 "2010-06-02T18:54:38Z")
**The Second Stone** said: > [@](#): > > Either it’s against the rules to call someone an insulting name, or it isn’t. Your little unwritten explicit tradition “directly” insulting rule was not one you cared to enforce when someone called me an “asshole” in GD. So, are you saying **you** want a warning for _this comment_? > [@](#): > > Nice of you to know precisely that the damage is no more than 4,000 dead, which _I call bogus_ on. It is just as internet anonymously cowardly ignorant as your calling bogus on someone who has put his name on something. You just called **Una Persson** “anonymously cowardly ignorant”. If you are willing to take your lumps for throwing your insult, then I suspect you can find a moderator who will throw warnings at both you and **DSeid** for lobbing insults in GD. But if you don’t want a warning for that remark, then you can hardly complain that **tomndebb** is being unfair by not giving one to **DSeid**. > [@](#): > > And then, as now, you pretend to be obtuse to that, where suddenly you can reach into my mind and invent an indirect insult to an individual poster where I intended none, If you were not intending to be insulting, then I suggest you consider your tone more carefully. From that thread, **Una Persson** said: > [@](#): > > I never once said that your chemist was ignorant or a coward. In fact I didn’t call anyone an anonymous coward on anything. Unlike yourself, who apparently is going to be allowed to refer to me and my posts as anonymous, cowardly, and ignorant. _She_ certainly thought you were trying to insult her. Apparently so did **DSeid**. It doesn’t take anyone reaching into your mind to invent anything, all we did is read the words you wrote on the page. If those words came out wrong, then you should be more careful in your word selection and arrangement. And remember, > [@](#): > > Either it’s against the rules to call someone an insulting name, or it isn’t. If the moderators are not allowed leeway, then they are not allowed leeway, and it doesn’t matter what your intent was, you called someone an insulting name. So, are you asking for warnings against both **DSeid** and yourself, or are you trying to argue that the moderator is being unfair while at the same time trying to get a warning applied to **DSeid** but not to yourself? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044/54 "2010-06-02T19:16:12Z")
Yes, they certainly thought I was trying to insult her, and I was mistaken in using that phrase. I had thought it common. I was mistaken. I had not intended to insult, but I did in that instance. I had incorrectly thought that people would understand the reference, but they did not, and they did not even after I explained it and offered links. The unofficial SDMB response was to allow “asshole” to be flung in GD. It doesn’t change that what the response was was certainly an insult and it was not objected to by the moderators. No, I am not asking for warnings against DSeid, I think that is long past time to do that. I am asking that the moderators change their double standards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-word-tom/541044.md?page=2)