# A worldwide health care poll **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 19, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593 "2010-04-19T02:24:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/61 "2010-07-12T15:30:31Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Right, straight question if you are up for it. > Person A, unemployed and living at the poverty level, gets hit by a car and needs a surgery, prosthetics, therapy and lifelong care. > Person B, stockbroker, wealthy, company health insurance and needs exactly the same. > > Are you saying that they have equal ability to access that healthcare that they need? > > And what do you consider a nominal charge? what are the costs per month that aren’t subsidised by employers? (assuming you have one) > > Would you accept that even “nominal charges” and subsidies leave people unable to afford care? That limits are set on the total costs of care to be paid? Do you acknowledge that you were wrong when you said that only a tiny portion of Americans have access to health care? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/62 "2010-07-12T15:37:22Z")
Pet Peeve: UHC stands for Universal Health Care, a system where every resident is, at least in theory, insured. The recent legislation passed by the US Congress is a Universal Health Care system, it requires everyone to have Health Insurance. People seem to convolute UHC with a government run health inurance program, but many countries have UHC without having gov’t provided health insurance for the bulk of their residents. The Netherlands, for example, has a system very much like that which the US system will be like when the various parts of the Affordable Care act come into play. So your second and third poll options are asking the same question twice. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/63 "2010-07-12T17:08:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Do you acknowledge that you were wrong when you said that only a tiny portion of Americans have access to health care? He didn’t say that. He said that only a tiny portion can access the best cutting edge medical facilities. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > …You do have a lot of the best cutting edge medical facilities. That only a tiny portion of you populace can access (plus whoever else in the world has six figure sums to spare). … ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/64 "2010-07-12T17:14:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Do you acknowledge that you were wrong when you said that only a tiny portion of Americans have access to health care? I acknowledge that using the word "tiny"is not helpful as it is hyperbolic with no real definition. How can we say if we are right or wrong when we don’t define our terms and be specific? So I will retract that. My own experiences (I did a lot of research on this before deciding against a move to the US with my company) lead me to believe that accessing the gold standard medical that exists is not straightforward. For many people it ends up being so costly or bound in red-tape to the point that they cannot actually access it. How many? I don’t know. We do know how many are uninsured and cannot hope to access it (40 million?) but how many on top of that are constrained by cost or hamstrung by restrictive insurance company policies? I really don’t know. Perhaps some of our learned friends here have access to the necessary cites. So then, quid pro quo. I’ve acknowledged and retracted my “tiny” claim. Will you give a straight answer to my questions? A quick reminder in case you have forgotten > [@](#): > > Right, straight question if you are up for it. > Person A, unemployed and living at the poverty level, gets hit by a car and needs a surgery, prosthetics, therapy and lifelong care. > Person B, stockbroker, wealthy, company health insurance and needs exactly the same. > > Are you saying that they have equal ability to access that healthcare that they need? > > And what do you consider a nominal charge? what are the costs per month that aren’t subsidised by employers? (assuming you have one) > > Would you accept that even “nominal charges” and subsidies leave people unable to afford care? That limits are set on the total costs of care to be paid? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/65 "2010-07-12T17:21:39Z")
and thanks for the backup legalsnugs, I’ll give ground on "tiny"with good grace though. Accuracy in language and plain speaking is important don’t you think?. Now…will I get the same in return? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/66 "2010-07-12T23:55:05Z")
I acknowledge there are people in the US who don’t have insurance and can’t afford health care. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/67 "2010-07-13T01:02:00Z")
Your poll left out the “US - Do you want to be taxed at the same rate as current UHC countries in order to pay for it.” ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/68 "2010-07-13T01:35:52Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Your poll left out the “US - Do you want to be taxed at the same rate as current UHC countries in order to pay for it.” If that’s what it takes. It’s better than paying out years and years to an insurance company that’s only going to turn around and say, “Sorry, not covered.” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/69 "2010-07-13T01:40:38Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > If that’s what it takes. It’s better than paying out years and years to an insurance company that’s only going to turn around and say, “Sorry, not covered.” Care to share with the class how many Americans that has happened to? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/70 "2010-07-13T01:49:19Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > It would have been interesting to have poll options solely for those people who have experience of both UHC and US-style: > > - I have experience of US and UHC and prefer US. > - I have experience of US and UHC and prefer UHC. > > I am in the latter category. Another “same here.” ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/71 "2010-07-13T02:04:07Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Your poll left out the “US - Do you want to be taxed at the same rate as current UHC countries in order to pay for it.” Well, England provides UHC for 180 billion and taxes a population of ~50 million to pay for it. The US State and Federal provides care for just the poor, old and veterans for a 1,250 billion dollars and taxes a population of ~300 million for it. So we’re paying 4.1 billion per million people through taxes to cover something like 30% of the population, England is paying 3.6 billion per million people to cover their entire population. So yes please, I would like to be taxed less to cover everyone. Numbers were derived from [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)#Funding) and [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States#Public). ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/72 "2010-07-13T02:05:16Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Your poll left out the “US - Do you want to be taxed at the same rate as current UHC countries in order to pay for it.” If I do not then have to pay insurance premiums (as would indeed be the case), then, yes, of course. Why not? Unless you provide some good reason to think that under a tax supported UHC system most people in the U.S. would end up paying more towards their health care security than they do now - and all the evidence shows that the opposite is vastly more likely to be the case - then then your implied argument is idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/73 "2010-07-13T03:00:58Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > So we’re paying 4.1 billion per million people through taxes to cover something like 30% of the population, England is paying 3.6 billion per million people to cover their entire population. > > So yes please, I would like to be taxed less to cover everyone. > > Numbers were derived from [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)#Funding) and [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States#Public). While I figured the two numbers would be comparable, the fact that the NHS actually costs _less_ actually suprised me when I added up the numbers, so I looked up fractions of GDP to double check the result. In 2009, the US spend 17% of GDP on Healthcare and public spending was 45-56% of that, so call it 8.5% for the amount of taxes the gov’t has to raise to pay for the 30% of the population it covers. The NHS on the other hand, in 2009, appears to have cost something like 7.5-8% of GDP, depending on what part of the UK you’re looking at, so the result holds. The question **flickster** should want to ask, if he wants to make sure people are aware of the comparitive tax burden the UK pays for its UHC, is “would you be willing to pay the same or less in taxes, as compared to what you’re paying now, for UHC?” ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/74 "2010-07-13T03:12:07Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Your poll left out the “US - Do you want to be taxed at the same rate as current UHC countries in order to pay for it.” Let’s see, UK equivalent of Social Security seems to be 11% up to income of about $66k per annum, then 1%; US = 7.65% up to $106,800 then 1.45%, plus non-tax costs such as employer contributions to health insurance, deductibles, co-pays, coinsurance and plain not-covered stuff. Yep, you have identified a great option - I would love to have UHC at UK tax (and health) costs. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/75 "2010-07-13T05:59:51Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Care to share with the class how many Americans that has happened to? Why should I have to? If it happens to me, then I’m all for it. Wasn’t that the question? And, yeah, I pay way more a year for the privilege of having health insurance that doesn’t cover my health needs, including prescriptions and normal checkups. I’m relatively certain I’d end up less out-of-pocket if my health care were covered by the government. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/76 "2010-07-13T06:18:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I acknowledge there are people in the US who don’t have insurance and can’t afford health care. And would you also acknowledge that there are people in the US who DO have health insurance and can’t afford health care? Because there are. Many of the people who declare bankruptcy due to medical costs HAVE health insurance. For example, when your treatment cost $100,000 and your insurance only pays 80% plus deductible, you gotta come up with the remaining $20,000+ from somewhere. I, for one, would find that very difficult to do. Plus as soon as you hit the max on your insurance, or as soon as you’re so sick you can’t work and get fired and lose your insurance, or as soon as the insurance company decides they’ve paid enough and cut you off for some inane reason (and they have and still do), the remaining and continuing costs of your treatment (lots of conditions require lifetime treatment), are on you. Good luck with that. Lots of good your insurance did you. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/77 "2010-07-14T09:55:55Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > And would you also acknowledge that there are people in the US who DO have health insurance and can’t afford health care? Because there are. > > Many of the people who declare bankruptcy due to medical costs HAVE health insurance. For example, when your treatment cost $100,000 and your insurance only pays 80% plus deductible, you gotta come up with the remaining $20,000+ from somewhere. I, for one, would find that very difficult to do. Plus as soon as you hit the max on your insurance, or as soon as you’re so sick you can’t work and get fired and lose your insurance, or as soon as the insurance company decides they’ve paid enough and cut you off for some inane reason (and they have and still do), the remaining and continuing costs of your treatment (lots of conditions require lifetime treatment), are on you. Good luck with that. Lots of good your insurance did you. This bears repeating. Because what it boils down to really is that UHC is not government-run health care, it’s government-funded insurance that provides everybody with equal access to care. And without the profit-making bottom line that private insurance operates on, leading to denials of services that have already been paid for. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/78 "2010-07-14T11:43:50Z")
> [@Jeneva](#): > > what it boils down to really is that UHC is not government-run health care, it’s government-funded insurance that provides everybody with equal access to care. And without the profit-making bottom line that private insurance operates on, leading to denials of services that have already been paid for. Absolutely, and it also ensures continuity of cover for those not working. Of course anything government funded is ultimately taxation funded and that seems to bother some people when applied to healthcare but not for schools, roads, libraries, judiciary, prisons, fire services, armed forces etc. etc. etc. etc. I know it is just a local quirk and all countries have those but it seems such a major departure from accepted civilised norms that it sticks out like a sore thumb. (which will cost a fortune to fix) ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593/79 "2010-07-14T12:15:39Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Your poll left out the “US - Do you want to be taxed at the same rate as current UHC countries in order to pay for it.” Hell, I am British but now live in Sweden where tax is considerably higher. I am happy to pay that tax so not only do I get the benefit but so does absolutely everyone else. If I could vote in the general election I would vote against the current government that have cut taxes, despite already paying some of the highest taxes in the world. I have no desire to move back to the UK where I feel they have slowly but surely become far too selfish in thinking, only about what happens to “me”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-worldwide-health-care-poll/536593.md?page=3)