# A young male African American FB friend is apparently supporting Ron Paul. Is this common? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 24, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791 "2012-02-24T02:02:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/41 "2012-02-24T18:26:17Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I think that is overstating it. Santorum has made explicit statements that make it clear he is very anti-gay. Ron Paul has said plenty of dumb things on race, but he hasn’t made any comments that are as openly hate filled. The closest I am aware of is his comment about TSA workers not looking like Americans or something equally dimwitted. I think a lot of his younger supporters are drawn to him because he appears to be willing to speak “THE TRUTH” about certain issues. At the same time they rationalize things like the articles in the newsletters because he apparently didn’t write them. > > Even I will admit, I wish some other politicians had the balls to publicly stake out a position about the Iraq war like [he has](http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/paul7.html): > > He said this in 2001 during the debate about Iraq. Oddly this is still relevant today in the debate about Iran. I find it discouraging he is the only politician willing to advocate sanity on this issue. He’s not the only one: “I don’t oppose all wars,” he began. "What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and hardships borne. "Well, I’m encouraged to see, for example, the Bush administration send an outstanding diplomat, [Undersecretary of State William] Burns, to participate in discussions with Iran. This is what I’ve been talking about for the last year and a half. You know, engaging in tough diplomacy is not a sign of weakness; it’s a sign of strength. So far the Iranians have not accepted the kinds of talks that we need to deal with in terms of suspending their enrichment program. But the fact that we’ve tried to talk to them then strengthens our hand in the international community when we wanna get Russia or China to help apply the tough sanctions that are gonna be required to make Iranians know that we mean business. " "Look, there’s a broader issue at stake here, and that is how do we approach Iran? I have said, unlike Senator Clinton, that I would meet directly with the leadership in Iran. I believe that we have not exhausted the diplomatic efforts that could be required to resolve some of these problems–them developing nuclear weapons, them supporting terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas. That does not mean that we take other options off the table, but it means that we move forward aggressively with a dialogue with them about not only the sticks that we’re willing to apply, but also the carrots. " ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/42 "2012-02-24T18:41:55Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > You think you’re being very clever don’t you? If you can’t see the difference then I don’t know what to tell you. Just bringing to light your hipocrisy and soft racism. In your mind a black man must vote in a way that places race as a top priority. Anything else causes you confusion. A white man, on the other hand, is worldly enough to consider other issues. I would wager that you have had little contact with black Americans and see them as a homogenous block of voters without personal opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/43 "2012-02-24T18:48:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Just bringing to light your hipocrisy and soft racism. This forum is not the place to call another poster a hypocrite and a racist. The comments in this thread have gotten excessively personal. **davidm** asked a question that may reflect some incorrect assumptions, but he did not make the kind of sweeping comments about black voters that several posters have ascribed to him. Let’s stick to what is actually being said. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/44 "2012-02-24T18:52:22Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Just bringing to light your hipocrisy and soft racism. In your mind a black man must vote in a way that places race as a top priority. Anything else causes you confusion. A white man, on the other hand, is worldly enough to consider other issues. I would wager that you have had little contact with black Americans and see them as a homogenous block of voters without personal opinions. Please refrain from fabricating what is in my mind. That’s the only response a post like this even deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/45 "2012-02-24T19:04:23Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I think that is overstating it. Santorum has made explicit statements that make it clear he is very anti-gay. Ron Paul has said plenty of dumb things on race, but he hasn’t made any comments that are as openly hate filled. The closest I am aware of is his comment about TSA workers not looking like Americans or something equally dimwitted. I think a lot of his younger supporters are drawn to him because he appears to be willing to speak “THE TRUTH” about certain issues. At the same time they rationalize things like the articles in the newsletters because he apparently didn’t write them. This is very much what I was aiming for. And even if Ron Paul is racist or has said some racist things, as others said, there’s plenty of explanations and rationalizations for people who look for them. Personally, I’m not a supporter though I find him probably the most palatable candidate, I think I like more of what he says than I dislike, those things I dislike I very much dislike, but regardless that he strikes me as someone who is authentic and says what he really believes. That belief may be something I disagree with or may be a terrible solution or based in naivete or in a fantasy world or whatever, but I think he genuinely believes it. So many other candidates seem like they’re saying just what they think we want to hear or may express genuine beliefs but may or may not follow through. That authenticity, particularly in the face of so many other candidates aiming at the older crowd, is quite attractive to the younger crowd. So, for me, it’s hardly a stretch at all that a young black man may be interested enough in that perceived authenticity, real or not, and easily rationalizes the perceived racism as not real, even if it is. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/46 "2012-02-24T19:10:46Z")
Damn people. I was asking why a member of a racial minority would support a racist. That’s a perfectly reasonable question. If you disagree that Paul is a racist then fine, argue that. But in the context of the assumption that Paul is a racist there’s nothing bigoted about my question. Calling someone is racist for asking such questions is a right-wing talking point, plain and simple. My question has been largely answered. [ul] [li]Not everyone believes Paul is a racist.[/li][li]People, especially young people, sometimes give political support without knowing all of the facts or because they blind themselves to some of the facts because they like some of the candidate’s positions.[/li][li]People, concerned about their financial future, sometimes place economic issues above all others.[/li][/ul]All reasonable answers. “You’re a racist and shouldn’t even be asking such a question” is not a reasonable answer. It’s an attempt to squelch the conversation and avoid even discussing any possible questionable things about Paul. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/47 "2012-02-24T19:15:41Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > “You’re a racist and shouldn’t even be asking such a question” is not a reasonable answer. It’s an attempt to squelch the conversation and avoid even discussing any possible questionable things about Paul. Just so you know, **WillFarnaby** is a true believer in Ron Paul, as his frequent posts in Paul-related threads have illustrated. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/48 "2012-02-24T19:17:50Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Just so you know, **WillFarnaby** is a true believer in Ron Paul, as his frequent posts in Paul-related threads have illustrated. I assumed as much. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/49 "2012-02-24T19:22:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, then, so much the better! Now let’s find something that works on white people. \<3 > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, she ain’t as pretty . . . I will beat you. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/50 "2012-02-24T20:16:07Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Personally, I’m not a supporter though I find him probably the most palatable candidate, I think I like more of what he says than I dislike, those things I dislike I very much dislike, but regardless that he strikes me as someone who is authentic and says what he really believes. This may partly explain why some blacks supported George Wallace for President in 1972. It’s not a racially-tinged issue, but Ron Paul’s fervent opposition to the Food and Drug Administration, tolerance of health quackery and opposition to mandatory vaccination threatens the health of everyone, including black people. About the only thing I find attractive about Paul’s platform is his announced insistence on mandating a congressional war vote before we commit troops to foreign conflicts. But that’s far from enough to overcome the vast amount of crazy that’s rolling around in his skull. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/51 "2012-02-24T20:16:08Z")
It is very difficult to discuss anything possibly negative about Ron Paul, as he has a small group of supporters, but those supporters are positively fanatical. I also think the fanaticism of his supporters may be the answer you’re looking for. Many (most?) of the people who support/worship Ron Paul do so in a way that is illogical at best. It’s more like a cult of personality than an actual political position. To me, it just seems that another person got duped into supporting him. I think that if _most_ of his followers understood what his positions would actually do to this country, they wouldn’t back him. What’s one more? ETA: In other words, black people can be just as dumb as whites! ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/52 "2012-02-24T20:23:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There are many statements in the newsletters that easily qualify as openly hate-filled. Of course that depends on whether or not you think he wrote them or winked at them for fundraising reasons. I agree with you the newsletters have those type of statements. I don’t know if he wrote them or not. I do know without doubt Santorum said hateful things about gay people. It may be a small distinction but that’s all I was trying to make. I consider Santorum to be a nasty, hateful bigot. Ron Paul may in fact be a racist. Or as was already said: > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > At most, I’d call Paul a racism enabler; his policies attract lots of racist support, and he has rarely taken any steps to close his tent to them. It doesn’t change the fact the statements in the newsletters are reprehensible. > [@Fat\_Chance](#): > > He’s not the only one: Well, he’s the only one still saying it today. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/53 "2012-02-24T20:34:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > About the only thing I find attractive about Paul’s platform is his announced insistence on mandating a congressional war vote before we commit troops to foreign conflicts. But that’s far from enough to overcome the vast amount of crazy that’s rolling around in his skull. Basically my take on him as well. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/54 "2012-02-24T20:53:44Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Damn people. I was asking why a member of a racial minority would support a racist. Paul’s staunch libertarian leanings are not racist per se. Nevertheless, the takeaway is that his viewpoints can be conduit to racism. > [@davidm](#): > > [ul] > [li]Not everyone believes Paul is a racist.[/li][li]People, especially young people, sometimes give political support without knowing all of the facts or because they blind themselves to some of the facts because they like some of the candidate’s positions.[/li][li]People, concerned about their financial future, sometimes place economic issues above all others.[/li][/ul]All reasonable answers. “You’re a racist and shouldn’t even be asking such a question” is not a reasonable answer. It’s an attempt to squelch the conversation and avoid even discussing any possible questionable things about Paul. I agree with all of the points you made, _davidm_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/55 "2012-02-24T21:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Paul’s staunch libertarian leanings are not racist per se. His unicorns and perpetual motion machines aren’t racist, either, because like his libertarian leanings, they also don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/56 "2012-02-24T21:37:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Paul doesn’t give a shit about the disproportionate impact of the War on Drugs on young black men. He opposes it because he views it as overreaching by the federal government. Citing the impact on black people is just a good way of getting people to agree with him. > > **Ravenman** didn’t say Paul had racist attitudes, by the way. … > > At most, I’d call Paul a racism enabler; his policies attract lots of racist support, and he has rarely taken any steps to close his tent to them. I think **RNATB** hit the nail right on the head, both on what I was saying and what he added. There’s something that I cannot quite reconcile about Paul’s concern for the Federal government putting African-Americans being in jail for drug offenses, and his concern about the Federal government overreaching to guarantee African-Americans a place at the lunch counter, which says to me that Paul is more concerned about an originalist interpretation of the Constitution than he is about the effect of that reading on actual people. Again, I am not prepared at all to call Paul racist, I am just lead to think that he views race as some kind of abstract, intellectual issue within the more important issue of liberty; rather than feeling and understanding the human toll of racism. It just seems that he doesn’t “get” racism, in the same way that a former staffer of his says that Paul "[is clueless when it comes to Hispanic and Black culture."](http://rightwingnews.com/election-2012/statement-from-fmr-ron-paul-staffer-on-newsletters-anti-semitism/) I think Paul thinks that the war on drugs is wrong regardless of its effects on a particular race, and I do not think that Paul thinks we ought to end the war on drugs specifically for the benefit of a race or an underclass. In fact, I’m not sure that he is moved at all to have the government address any racial ills in this society, as it seems that he believes that government should stay out of those issues (at least as far as I can tell). That’s just a naive, and perhaps insensitive, position to hold. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/57 "2012-02-25T01:26:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > His unicorns and perpetual motion machines aren’t racist, either, because like his libertarian leanings, they also don’t exist. I do not follow. > [@Ravenman](#): > > I think **RNATB** hit the nail right on the head, both on what I was saying and what he added. > > There’s something that I cannot quite reconcile about Paul’s concern for the Federal government putting African-Americans being in jail for drug offenses, and his concern about the Federal government overreaching to guarantee African-Americans a place at the lunch counter, which says to me that Paul is more concerned about an originalist interpretation of the Constitution than he is about the effect of that reading on actual people. > > Again, I am not prepared at all to call Paul racist, I am just lead to think that he views race as some kind of abstract, intellectual issue within the more important issue of liberty; rather than feeling and understanding the human toll of racism. It just seems that he doesn’t “get” racism, in the same way that a former staffer of his says that Paul "[is clueless when it comes to Hispanic and Black culture."](http://rightwingnews.com/election-2012/statement-from-fmr-ron-paul-staffer-on-newsletters-anti-semitism/) > > I think Paul thinks that the war on drugs is wrong regardless of its effects on a particular race, and I do not think that Paul thinks we ought to end the war on drugs specifically for the benefit of a race or an underclass. In fact, I’m not sure that he is moved at all to have the government address any racial ills in this society, as it seems that he believes that government should stay out of those issues (at least as far as I can tell). That’s just a naive, and perhaps insensitive, position to hold. Excellent analysis. I especially agree with your last point. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/58 "2012-02-25T02:09:03Z")
Libertarian discussions always lean toward extreme abstraction, it is a common criticism of the whole philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/59 "2012-02-25T02:18:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Again, I am not prepared at all to call Paul racist, I am just lead to think that he views race as some kind of abstract, intellectual issue within the more important issue of liberty; rather than feeling and understanding the human toll of racism. It just seems that he doesn’t “get” racism, in the same way that a former staffer of his says that Paul "[is clueless when it comes to Hispanic and Black culture."](http://rightwingnews.com/election-2012/statement-from-fmr-ron-paul-staffer-on-newsletters-anti-semitism/) I’d buy the non-race tinged explanation about Paul’s libertarian philosophy as it pertains to rejecting a federal “war on drugs” (which allows his supporters to say that he is concerned with the plight of black people, although a substantial percentage (majority?) of those jailed for such offenses are non-African-American). The same libertarian philosophy has Paul rejecting landmark federal civil rights legislation, although this position fits in much better with Paul’s known association with virulently racist language as demonstrated in his newsletters and fundraising appeal literature. So I’d argue that Paul anti-war-on-drugs stance is color-neutral; the anti-civil rights position arguably less so. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791/60 "2012-02-25T03:37:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think Paul thinks that the war on drugs is wrong regardless of its effects on a particular race, and I do not think that Paul thinks we ought to end the war on drugs specifically for the benefit of a race or an underclass. In fact, I’m not sure that he is moved at all to have the government address any racial ills in this society, as it seems that he believes that government should stay out of those issues (at least as far as I can tell). That’s just a naive, and perhaps insensitive, position to hold. But isn’t that a more honest and more fundamental position to hold? When you say he is too focused on issue of liberty _rather than feeling and understanding the human toll of racism_ what I hear is that you’d rather deal with symptoms of racism than the true cause of racism (and other perceived or real injustices caused by structural problems) affecting different minorities. In other words, it appears a respect is given to those who prevent bleeding because we don’t want to confront the slasher wielding knife. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-young-male-african-american-fb-friend-is-apparently-supporting-ron-paul-is-this-common/613791.md?page=4)