# A123.. another social engineering project gone wrong \[gov't investment in lithium ion battery maker\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912 "2012-10-16T18:51:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/1 "2012-10-16T18:51:27Z")
Probably too late of a story to change minds at this point. Actually just more of the same anyways. If you couldn’t see the failure earlier, you probably don’t see it now. Anyways…One of Obama’s pet green companies flops… Enjoy the funny vid [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/iIoQcgtsHCI/hqdefault.jpg "A123 Video Shows President Obama, Top Politicians Praising Failed Green Company") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIoQcgtsHCI) ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/2 "2012-10-16T18:59:24Z")
President Obama unleashing private sector growth and seeing results… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mporvcNbCHQ/hqdefault.jpg "Obama Mentions A123 Systems In 2010 Speech") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mporvcNbCHQ) ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/3 "2012-10-16T19:03:49Z")
Might as well get even more of Obama’s own words about this out… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JZr2Pjzg1-8/hqdefault.jpg "Obama Speaks about A123 Systems.mov") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZr2Pjzg1-8) ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/4 "2012-10-16T19:18:14Z")
Too busy to follow blind YT links. Care to tell us what the argument is? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/5 "2012-10-16T19:21:28Z")
I’m just guessing here, but I think the argument is: “Obama is a communist” ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/6 "2012-10-16T19:22:42Z")
A company got some ~$250 million to develop Lithium Ion batteries and is now filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. This is somehow Obama’s fault. I personally blame the socialist policies of the previous administration for giving them grant money in 2006 and 2008. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/7 "2012-10-16T19:27:47Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > Too busy to follow blind YT links. Care to tell us what the argument is? The argument is about the failure of social engineering for green energy. The YT links are to Obama in his own words on A123. I wouldn’t want to quote him out of context. It seems everyone has to explain what he meant when people use his words. Instead, I posted the videos of him and his take on A123. I know youtube is scary. Tread carefully. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/8 "2012-10-16T19:32:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m just guessing here, but I think the argument is: > > “Obama is a communist” That wouldn’t be an argument. Just a statement. I hope I didn’t upset you by posting an Obama failure. I’m sure all of his success will overcome any of the very few mistakes he has made. Actually, this was probably someone else’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/9 "2012-10-16T19:33:22Z")
Some businesses fail. Regardless of political affiliation, we can all agree with this statement right? The failure of A123 says nothing about the success or failure of our energy industrial policy. What you should be looking at is the cost benefit analysis for the entire portfolio of investments we make. Focusing only on the failed businesses is pretty shortsighted. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/10 "2012-10-16T19:35:30Z")
Probably too late of a story to change lie-filled minds at this point. Actually just more of the same Romney bullshit anyways. If you couldn’t see the failure of that liar earlier, you probably don’t see it now. > **[Romney's Clean Energy Whoppers - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2012/10/romneys-clean-energy-whoppers/)** > > Mitt Romney made numerous bogus claims in the Oct. 3 debate about the $90 billion in grants, guaranteed loans and tax breaks for energy projects in the stimulus bill: Romney falsely claimed “about half” of the clean-energy companies that received... ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/11 "2012-10-16T19:37:10Z")
Hell, A123 isn’t even going anywhere - it’s being bought by Johnson Controls, another US company. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/12 "2012-10-16T19:41:01Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Hell, A123 isn’t even going anywhere - it’s being bought by Johnson Controls, another US company. OP would apparently have preferred A123 had accepted the offer to sell to a Chinese company, Romney-style. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/13 "2012-10-16T19:47:43Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > OP would apparently have preferred A123 had accepted the offer to sell to a Chinese company, Romney-style. I would have preferred that the company made its own way. I don’t want the government to pick losers and losers. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/14 "2012-10-16T19:49:06Z")
Well, given that Obama was holding that day job as POTUS, I’m willing to go easy on his 4% failure rate for all these little side companies that he was supposedly running. Especially since Romney had a 30+% failure rate at Bain Capital. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/15 "2012-10-16T19:49:16Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m just guessing here, but I think the argument is: > > “Obama is a communist” And, of course, that any energy policy other than "drill, baby, drill, anywhere, anytime!"is “social engineering.” ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/16 "2012-10-16T19:50:48Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > Well, given that Obama was holding that day job as POTUS, I’m willing to go easy on his 4% failure rate for all these little side companies that he was supposedly running. Especially since Romney had a 30+% failure rate at Bain Capital. Bain wasn’t investing anyone’s money who didn’t give it to them willingly. Obama was using tax payer money. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/17 "2012-10-16T19:51:57Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > And, of course, that any energy policy other than "drill, baby, drill, anywhere, anytime!"is “social engineering.” I never said that either. I understand it is easier to just make up something to argue against though. Nothing new here. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/18 "2012-10-16T19:53:37Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Bain wasn’t investing anyone’s money who didn’t give it to them willingly. > > Obama was using tax payer money. So, now we look at Obama 4% failure and Romney 30+% failure and you want to hand the check book over to Romney with his track record? (BTW - yes, I know the POTUS doesn’t have any check book… but if you want to throw ‘logic’ and ‘reality’ in, then the POTUS also does not run these companies or even select them) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/19 "2012-10-16T19:58:11Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > One of Obama’s pet green companies . . . Wait, **that** would be a “social engineering project” now?! ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912/20 "2012-10-16T19:58:28Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > I would have preferred that the company made its own way. I don’t want the government to pick losers and losers. Are you against all subsidies for energy producers or just the ones that have happened during Obama’s term? For instance, oil subsidies started in 1916 and persist to this day. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a123-another-social-engineering-project-gone-wrong-govt-investment-in-lithium-ion-battery-maker/637912.md?page=2)