# a35362: But what if she faints in the Oval Office? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019 "2005-11-28T05:57:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/21 "2005-11-28T14:26:46Z")
> [@LaurAnge](#): > > 1. The burden of proof is not on me. It absolutely would be if this were a court trial, or an out-of-hand condemnation. It’s not. I’m just as happy to get clarification from the subject of the OP as anyone else. I’m not sure I agree with this point. You leveled an accusation of mysogeny. The burden of proof is most certainly on you. So far, you’re not convincing me a35362’s two posts are sexist, let alone mysogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/22 "2005-11-28T14:35:42Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > You leveled an accusation of mysogeny. Nope, she asked for clarification: > [@OP](#): > > I could be wrong. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way … This is your chance to sort me out. She is not trying to convince you of anything, at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/23 "2005-11-28T14:41:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Nope, she asked for clarification: No, this sentence: > [@](#): > > a35362, I’d really appreciate it if you would at least attempt to hide your misogyny when discussing Hillary Clinton. Is an accusation. You cannot hide a property that you do not possess. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/24 "2005-11-28T14:42:02Z")
And here we have yet another example of how one must caveat the fucking piss out of nearly any statement or else people assume the worst. What ever happened to giving folks the benefit of the doubt? Oh wait, that means missing out on that delicious thrill of outrage, and maybe even the dull pleasure of claiming victimhood. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/25 "2005-11-28T14:48:50Z")
> [@cowgirl](#): > > Nope, she asked for clarification. Read the first sentence of the OP. Here, I’ll even quote it for you so you don’t have to scroll up: > [@](#): > > a35362, I’d really appreciate it if you would at least attempt to hide your misogyny when discussing Hillary Clinton. Further down in her post we find this gem: > [@](#): > > Another woman disqualified on the same grounds. This was a response to a quote about Dole in which a35362 did no such thing. She simply stated that she was reminded of something that other people said. Sure, at the end of her OP she asked for clarification, but that was well after putting words in a35362’s mouth and accusing her of misogyny. I could see if she _only_ asked for clarification, but the truth of the matter is that she didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/26 "2005-11-28T14:53:54Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Either you are contolled by your emotions or you are controlled. One implies the exact opposite of the other. You cannot have it both ways. Aside from you probably mistyping something there, who’s trying to have it both ways? You can be “controlling”, as in wanting to control other people, and still “controlled by your emotions”. I neither know nor much care if either is true of la Clinton, but the two are not mutually exclusive. The latter probably implies that you’re unfit even to attempt the former, but that would be part of the beef against Hils in the first place, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/27 "2005-11-28T15:11:35Z")
I agree that the statements about Clinton and Dole sound suspiciously sexist. I’m willing to suspend my judgement on the matter until the a234-whatever person shows up with an explanation. I also agree that it sounds like boilerplate conservative/Republican talking points. I’d like to see some hard evidence that Clinton is subject to these characteristics any more than any other politician. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/28 "2005-11-28T15:24:49Z")
I would not formally throw the accusation of sexism onto **a35362** without more evidence, but I would certainly suspect it. First, as noted in the OP and in subsequent posts, the criticisms are almost verbatim the kind of sexist arguments about why women could not be in charge of things. Second, those complaints don’t match up with anything I’ve ever heard Hillary Clinton’s usual detractors complain about her. The more typical line from the Hillary-haters is that she’s phony, calculated, cold, ambitious, does everything for a deliberate and political reason, etc. etc. — hardly a smooth mesh with “hot-headed and driven by her emotions”! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/29 "2005-11-28T15:30:07Z")
The accusation of misogyny is a strawman argument, and an ad hominem to boot. There is nothing in the **a35362** material to compel those conclusions. Of course, the original **a35362** is a gratuitous assertion - one with no evidence to support it. And as my high school debate teacher was fond of drilling into our heads, **a gratuitous assertion may be equally gratuitously denied.** So - with respect to the OP of this thread, I’d say no evidence exists to support your charges. And with respect to **a35362** ’s comments about Senator Clinton, I’d say: “No, she’s not.” ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/30 "2005-11-28T15:39:53Z")
Female Heads of State - Incomplete list…it seems that the US is behind the rest of the world. Sirimavo Bandaranaike, Sri Lanka Prime Minister, 1960-1965, 1970-1977, 1994-2000. Indira Gandhi, India Prime Minister, 1966-77, 1980-1984. Golda Meir, Israel Prime Minister, 1969-1974. Isabel Peron, Argentina President, 1974-1976 Elisabeth Domitien, Central African Republic Prime Minister, 1975-1976 Margaret Thatcher, Great Britain Prime Minister, 1979-1990. Maria da Lourdes Pintasilgo, Portugal Prime Minister, 1979-1980. Lidia Gueiler Tejada, Bolivia Prime Minister, 1979-1980. Dame Eugenia Charles, Dominica Prime Minister, 1980-1995. Vigdís Finnbogadóttír, Iceland President, 1980-96. Gro Harlem Brundtland, Norway Prime Minister, 1981, 1986-1989, 1990-1996. Soong Ching-Ling, Peoples’ Republic of China Honorary President, 1981. Milka Planinc, Yugoslavia Federal Prime Minister, 1982-1986. Agatha Barbara, Malta President, 1982-1987. Maria Liberia-Peters, Netherlands Antilles Prime Minister, 1984-1986, 1988-1993. Corazon Aquino, Philippines President, 1986-92. Benazir Bhutto, Pakistan Prime Minister, 1988-1990, 1993-1996. Kazimiera Danuta Prunskiena, Lithuania Prime Minister, 1990-91. Violeta Barrios de Chamorro, Nicaragua Prime Minister, 1990-1996. Mary Robinson, Ireland President, 1990-1997. Ertha Pascal Trouillot, Haiti Interim President, 1990-1991. Sabine Bergmann-Pohl, German Democratic Republic President, 1990. Aung San Suu Kyi, Myanmar (Burma) Her party won 80% of the seats in a democratic election in 1990, but the military government refused to recognize the results. She was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1991. Khaleda Zia, Bangladesh Prime Minister, 1991-1996. Edith Cresson, France Prime Minister, 1991-1992. Hanna Suchocka, Poland Prime Minister, 1992-1993. Kim Campbell, Canada Prime Minister, 1993. Sylvie Kinigi, Burundi Prime Minister, 1993-1994. Agathe Uwilingiyimana, Rwanda Prime Minister, 1993-1994. Susanne Camelia-Romer, Netherlands Antilles Prime Minister, 1993, 1998- Tansu Çiller, Turkey Prime Minister, 1993-1995. Chandrika Bandaranaike Kumaratunge, Sri Lanka Prime Minister, 1994, President, 1994- Reneta Indzhova, Bulgaria, Interim Prime Minister, 1994-1995. Claudette Werleigh, Haiti Prime Minister, 1995-1996. Sheikh Hasina Wajed, Bangladesh Prime Minister, 1996-. Mary McAleese, Ireland President, 1997-. Pamela Gordon, Bermuda Prime Minister, 1997-1998. Janet Jagan, Guyana Prime Minister, 1997, President, 1997-1999. Jenny Shipley, New Zealand Prime Minister, 1997-1999. Ruth Dreifuss, Switzerland President, 1999-2000. Jennifer Smith, Bermuda Prime Minister, 1998-. Nyam-Osoriyn Tuyaa, Mongolia, Acting Prime Minister, July 1999. Helen Clark, New Zealand Prime Minister, 1999-. Mireya Elisa Moscoso de Arias, Panama President, 1999-. Vaira Vike-Freiberga, Latvia President, 1999-. Tarja Kaarina Halonen, Finland President, 2000-. Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo - President of the Philippines, sworn in on January 20, 2001. Mame Madior Boye became Prime Minister in Senegal in March of 2001. Megawati Sukarnoputri ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/31 "2005-11-28T15:56:57Z")
Nitpick: the Prime Minister of the UK is not the Head of State. However, it’s close enough to what’s meant. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/32 "2005-11-28T16:08:56Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Nitpick: the Prime Minister of the UK is not the Head of State. However, it’s close enough to what’s meant. It’s true in other parliamentary systems as well – India, Canada, Australia, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/33 "2005-11-28T16:18:38Z")
So, who on that list has/had the biggest tits? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/34 "2005-11-28T16:26:34Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > So, who on that list has/had the biggest tits? Or looks the best in a short skirt? Honestly, what does that list have to do with this thread _at all_? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/35 "2005-11-28T16:32:09Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Or looks the best in a short skirt? > Honestly, what does that list have to do with this thread _at all_? Where I come from we refer to a comment like **Revtim’s** as a “joke”. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/36 "2005-11-28T16:36:42Z")
You guys are right. I began the post more angry than rational. Please consider my sentiments those of the last paragraph of the OP rather than the first line. I still think, however, that those sentiments quoted are misogynistic (even if the poster in general isn’t) and would like to see an explanation for them that doesn’t stem from misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/37 "2005-11-28T16:45:09Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > Where I come from we refer to a comment like **Revtim’s** as a “joke”. Are you implying mine wasn’t funny? I take extreme offense to that. I say we should have a bikini contest to see who looks the best. My second sentence was directed to jali and my first was my way of, er, high-fiving, Revtim. I thought his joke was funny, in a juvenile way (which pretty much sums up my sense of humor in one word anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/38 "2005-11-28T17:50:05Z")
I’m glad everything worked out. However, I must say that “controlled by emotions” and “controlled” usually mean almost the exact opposite of each other colloquially. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/39 "2005-11-28T18:18:07Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > However, I must say that “controlled by emotions” and “controlled” usually mean almost the exact opposite of each other colloquially. The comment was the HRC is “controlling.” ControllING. Not controllED. Someone who wants to, or does, control others is controllING. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019/40 "2005-11-28T20:57:54Z")
Well, hello! Just saw this, and what the HECK! For the record: I AM female. I AM a feminist and have no problem with strong women, in or out of politics. I have no problem with the idea of a female president, although I don’t think we’ll see one any time soon in this country. I don’t see any reason why a woman couldn’t do a fine job as president of the U.S., but I’m not going to vote for a candidate just because she’s a woman. In my very, very humble opinion, Hillary Rodham Clinton would not be a successful president (even if she could be elected, which is another issue). Again, maybe I’m completely wrong about this, as I said in the original thread, but from what I have read about her over the years she does seem to get too emotionally involved in political decisions, in the sense that she takes political attacks personally and becomes angry and self-pitying. Now maybe this just gets reported more because she’s a woman or because she lived in the White House bubble, and any aide can leak gossip to the press. Maybe it’s more a reflection of our society holding women to a different standard, which is unfair, certainly, but isn’t going to change soon. Sure, male politicians can and do become angry and self-pitying: Bill Clinton himself is a famous example. And just think of the tremendous pressures the PotUS is under on a daily basis. Criminy! But in BC’s case, while I thought the self-pity was pretty disgusting even given the number and variety of enemies he had trying to take him down, he seemed to have his anger under control. I pictured him shouting at George Stephanopoulos or somebody for 30 seconds or so, blowing off steam, and then taking a breath and getting his head back in the game. He has an amazing ability to focus, that I think his wife just doesn’t have. I started a thread a long time ago wanting to know why people hate Hillary so much and it was an instant trainwreck. Why she’s a liar! She’s a lesbian! She’s a carpetbagger! She’s arrogant! She wears a dildo! She’s only sticking with Bill because she wants to be president someday! She’s a bitch! She’s a commie! Everyone who posted had something awful to say about her, and I never got a real answer about where it comes from. It was bewildering, to say the least. Anyway, hope this is an acceptable response to the OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a35362-but-what-if-she-faints-in-the-oval-office/333019.md?page=3)