# a4v \["accepted for value"\] works **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 7, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338 "2013-11-07T16:22:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![coilybeauty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@coilybeauty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coilybeauty)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/1 "2013-11-07T16:22:29Z")
I dont know Y she states its not true because i have proof that it does work. check on youtube…there are hundreds of people that have used a4v to pay off loans and bills. I have a personal friend that has used a4v to pay off a debt with the IRS. I suggest that you do your own research and try it yourself. That is the only way you will be able to know if it is non sense or not. I am in the process now; i will let you know the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/2 "2013-11-07T16:29:09Z")
[Cecil’s column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3057/can-i-avoid-paying-a-tax-bill-by-writing-accepted-for-value-on-it) that I assume **coilybeauty** is referring to. a4v=accepted for value. Sovereign citizen bullshittery that has never worked and never will. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/3 "2013-11-07T16:37:53Z")
> [@coilybeauty](#): > > I dont know Y she states its not true because i have proof that it does work. check on youtube…there are hundreds of people that have used a4v to pay off loans and bills. I have a personal friend that has used a4v to pay off a debt with the IRS. I suggest that you do your own research and try it yourself. That is the only way you will be able to know if it is non sense or not. I am in the process now; i will let you know the outcome. 1. Cecil is of the “he” variety. 2. On the off-chance that you actually believe this foolery and are not just a shill, Could you please provide us with one case where a real person tried to use this method of avoiding paying their fair share of taxes to the IRS and was successful-no anonymous anecdotes, please. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/4 "2013-11-07T16:39:20Z")
> [@coilybeauty](#): > > i have proof that it does work. \I am in the process now; i will let you know the outcome. Show us your proof, please. And you may need to delegate letting us know the outcome; many prisons don’t allow internet access for inmates. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/5 "2013-11-07T16:54:41Z")
> [@coilybeauty](#): > > i will let you know the outcome. Breath bated. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/6 "2013-11-07T19:02:13Z")
I ate some cheese and am now waiting by the mouse hole. Breath baited. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/7 "2013-11-07T19:46:18Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Breath bated. I don’t know if they have internet privileges in jail. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/8 "2013-11-08T02:42:29Z")
MODERATOR NOTE: I’ve edited the thread title to make it more comprehensible to readers. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/9 "2013-11-08T07:22:41Z")
> [@coilybeauty](#): > > I have a personal friend that has used a4v to pay off a debt with the IRS. Your friend is lying or mistaken. The people (particularly wealthy people) of the USA spend millions if not billions per annum on tax accountants to obtain advice on minimising their personal taxation. Those accountants pore over every aspect of US tax law, and every court or other decision, looking for loopholes and schemes to help their clients pay less tax. Billions of dollars in personal tax is paid every year. If it were correct that an individual can avoid any tax bill by writing three words on it, every tax accountant who has advised a client they have to pay an IRS bill was grossly negligent. Every single such payment was essentially optional and voluntary. You really think that is a more likely scenario than that your friend, and certain people on youtube, are full of shit? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/10 "2013-11-08T13:04:47Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > If it were correct that an individual can avoid any tax bill by writing three words on it, every tax accountant who has advised a client they have to pay an IRS bill was grossly negligent. Every single such payment was essentially optional and voluntary. It is optional, but tax accountants are actually agents of the IRS! You see, this is a far-reaching conspiracy wide enough to ensnare millions secretly, yet is somehow weak enough that if you just use the three magical words, they are powerless to enforce their tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/11 "2013-11-08T13:24:16Z")
But it only works if you use the right color ink and write the words at the correct angle on the page. Really. You can look it up on YouTube, which is immune to the influence of those who have hijacked our Constitution. (Before you ask, it’s because YouTube didn’t exist when Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/12 "2013-11-08T13:50:20Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > MODERATOR NOTE: I’ve edited the thread title to make it more comprehensible to readers. Oh no!!! By editing the thread title, you broke the Magic Words! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/13 "2013-11-08T13:52:30Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > But it only works if you use the right color ink and write the words at the correct angle on the page. Really. You can look it up on YouTube, which is immune to the influence of those who have hijacked our Constitution. (Before you ask, it’s because YouTube didn’t exist when Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.) No, it’s because the internet operates under Admiralty Law and the rest of the country operates under Military Law. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/14 "2013-11-08T13:59:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, it’s because the internet operates under Admiralty Law and the rest of the country operates under Military Law. So that explains the fringe on my monitor. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/15 "2013-11-08T14:05:29Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Show us your proof, please. And you may need to delegate letting us know the outcome; many prisons don’t allow internet access for inmates. Fool! They’ll never get the OP. They’ve already checked all of the courtrooms in their jurisdiction–gold fringes, natch…! ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/16 "2013-11-08T15:50:39Z")
I have no doubt somebody somewhere managed to get out of some debt by writing “accepted for value” on the front and mailing it back. After all, Donald Trump has gotten away with _millions_ of dollars in debt just by using the basic practice of _not paying_. But as a legal strategy, it is faulty and has no actual worth. Rely on it for dismissing your taxes at your peril. As in, “Wesley Snipes” peril. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/17 "2013-11-08T16:09:19Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > MODERATOR NOTE: I’ve edited the thread title to make it more comprehensible to readers. You could have done that by running it through an SHA-256 hash. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/18 "2013-11-08T16:11:17Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > So that explains the fringe… IME, nothing ever explains the fringe. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/19 "2013-11-08T16:12:23Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > But it only works if you use the right color ink and write the words at the correct angle on the page. Really. You can look it up on YouTube, which is immune to the influence of those who have hijacked our Constitution. (Before you ask, it’s because YouTube didn’t exist when Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.) For true deep understanding of the wisdom revealed by YouTube, you need to read [the comment threads](http://xkcd.com/202/). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338/20 "2013-11-08T16:43:24Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You really think that is a more likely scenario than that your friend, and certain people on youtube, are full of shit? [They can’t put anything on the Internet that isn’t true.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bufTna0WArc) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a4v-accepted-for-value-works/673338.md?page=2)