# Aaron Hernandez found dead in cell. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 19, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784 "2017-04-19T12:06:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/82 "2017-09-22T15:12:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Not to mention all the autopsies done in the past 80 years. Examining the brain is part of any autopsy. Medical examiners would have seen that damage in the brain tissue dissection decades ago. Most people don’t have autopsies done after they die. And, CTE has to be discovered via microscopic examination of brain tissue – which, unless the person doing the autopsy has reason to believe that brain damage was a factor, may not be done. It wasn’t until the past 15 years or so, with the work of Dr. Bennet Omalu and others, that researchers and physicians were even thinking to look at the brains of former players in this way. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/83 "2017-09-22T15:44:43Z")
I don’t know what to say. 80 plus years of contact sports in school is a massive sample size. There’s a lot of perfectly well adjusted former school athletes that went on to fullfilling careers and lives afterwards. I don’t dispute they are seeing something in microscopic examinations of brain tissue. But we know from observing our own relatives and classmates that they don’t exhibit extreme CTE symptoms. Whatever CTE they have isn’t affecting their lives. It’s nothing like the horror stories former pro athletes tell. Many of these behaviors are common in people that never played sports. I understand with CTE these get extreme > [@](#): > > Some of the possible signs and symptoms of CTE may include: > Difficulty thinking (cognitive impairment) > Impulsive behavior. > Depression or apathy. > Short-term memory loss. > Difficulty planning and carrying out tasks (executive function) > Emotional instability. > Substance abuse. > Suicidal thoughts or behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/84 "2017-09-22T15:50:47Z")
Here is some actual knowledge about CTE injuries: [CTE found in 99% of studied brains from deceased NFL players](http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/health/cte-nfl-players-brains-study/index.html) > [@](#): > > Out of 202 deceased former football players total – a combination of high school, college and professional players – CTE was neuropathologically diagnosed in 177, the study said. The disease was identified in 110 out of 111 former NFL players. It was also found in three of the 14 high school players and 48 of the 53 college players. And from the noted doctor that originally discovered the link between CTE and NFL players: [CTE NFL Doctor says children playing football is child abuse](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4776398/Doctor-says-children-playing-football-child-abuse.html) > [@](#): > > A doctor who discovered the link between CTE brain disease and the NFL said that letting children play football should be considered child abuse. > > Dr Bennet Omalu warned parents against allowing their children under the age of 18, to play the sport, claiming that there was no way to make it safe against brain trauma. > > The noted neuropathologist, portrayed by Will Smith in the film Concussion, found staggering evidence that NFL players sustained long-term head trauma with declining mental capabilities, due to the sport. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/85 "2017-09-22T15:55:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s called common sense. The entire reason we have science is because common sense isn’t good enough. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/86 "2017-09-22T15:59:11Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I don’t know what to say. 80 plus years of contact sports in school is a massive sample size. There’s a lot of perfectly well adjusted former school athletes that went on to fullfilling careers and lives afterwards. > > I don’t dispute they are seeing something in microscopic examinations of brain tissue. > > But we know from observing our own relatives and classmates that they don’t exhibit extreme CTE symptoms. Whatever CTE they have isn’t affecting their lives. It’s nothing like the horror stories former pro athletes tell. > > Many of these behaviors are common in people that never played sports. > I understand with CTE these get extreme I guess that something that wasn’t looked for for eighty years because the proper equipment didn’t exist yet, combined with a monetary need to downplay injuries of this sort means that it just didn’t exist before the truth was uncovered, right? :dubious: “I understand that with CTE these get extreme” is quite a jump from what that link actually said: > [@](#): > > _Some_ of the _possible_ signs and symptoms of CTE _may_ include… (italics mine) You keep saying that it’s obvious when someone has CTE injuries, but that’s just not true at all. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/87 "2017-09-22T16:05:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Here is some actual knowledge about CTE injuries: > [CTE found in 99% of studied brains from deceased NFL players](http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/health/cte-nfl-players-brains-study/index.html) Just to note that that study, while alarming, isn’t a random sample of former players. That 99% figure is of players whose brains were closely studied after their deaths, to look for CTE – players (or their families, or their doctors) who believed that something was going wrong, and requested that the brains be studied. The incidence of CTE among _all_ former NFL players is likely to be something less than 99% (though, I believe, probably still _far_ higher than what one would see among the general population). ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/88 "2017-09-22T16:07:24Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > But we know from observing our own relatives and classmates that they don’t exhibit extreme CTE symptoms. Whatever CTE they have isn’t affecting their lives. It’s nothing like the horror stories former pro athletes tell. You’ve never seen former star athletes from high school who seemingly had it all, but never managed to make anything of themselves, and bummed around with dead end jobs and turned to the bottle? I think Bruce Springsteen alone has written 14 songs about this phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/89 "2017-09-22T16:13:44Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Just to note that that study, while alarming, isn’t a random sample of former players. That 99% figure is of players whose brains were closely studied after their deaths, to look for CTE – players (or their families, or their doctors) who believed that something was going wrong, and requested that the brains be studied. > > The incidence of CTE among _all_ former NFL players is likely to be something less than 99% (though, I believe, probably still _far_ higher than what one would see among the general population). Acknowledged, but I just wanted to add that study to the others out there. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/90 "2017-09-22T16:16:24Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s called common sense. > > 80 plus years of high school sports. > > There’s no way CTE symptoms wouldn’t have been observed within the population. > > Not to mention all the autopsies done in the past 80 years. Examining the brain is part of any autopsy. Medical examiners would have seen that damage in the brain tissue dissection decades ago. > Pro sports is entirely different. Players are bigger and stronger. They’ve had 12 plus years of impact on their bodies. THis whole post is filled with unsupported declarations of, shall we say, dubious veracity, but your last paragraph takes the cake. Exactly what percentage of people who play in the NFL do you think play for “12 plus years”? Did you pick that number because you thought it was somehow representative of reality? 😕:dubious: [It isn’t](https://www.statista.com/statistics/240102/average-player-career-length-in-the-national-football-league/). The average NFL career lasts just 3.3 years. The number of people playing for “12 plus years” in pro football is amazingly small. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/91 "2017-09-22T16:20:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > THis whole post is filled with unsupported declarations of, shall we say, dubious veracity, but your last paragraph takes the cake. Exactly what percentage of people who play in the NFL do you think play for “12 plus years”? Did you pick that number because you thought it was somehow representative of reality? 😕:dubious: [It isn’t](https://www.statista.com/statistics/240102/average-player-career-length-in-the-national-football-league/). The average NFL career lasts just 3.3 years. The number of people playing for “12 plus years” in pro football is amazingly small. To be fair, I suspect that he was including playing at lower levels in that “12 plus years.” If we make the assumption that an NFL player played the game throughout high school and college (a reasonable assumption, in most but not all cases), and possibly in middle school, that’d mean that the typical professional player might have 8-10 years of football in his past before joining the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/92 "2017-09-22T16:34:57Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Soccer players have also been diagnosed with CTE, so that’s one thin which is not safer. No idea about a Rugby, but won’t be surprised. Ditto ice hockey. Soccer players use their head a lot - I was just at the US Open Cup match (go SKC!), and there was one sequence where there were 8 (or more - a lot at any rate) head strikes in a row - it really looked like a volleyball game with the ball never touching the ground. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/93 "2017-09-22T16:36:56Z")
Aceplace57: do you concede an association between cigarette smoking and cancer? If you do, do you realize how long it took for the medical world and the general public to recognize this association? > [@](#): > > Mechanisation and mass marketing towards the end of the 19th century popularised the cigarette habit, however, causing a global lung cancer epidemic. Cigarettes were recognised as the cause of the epidemic in the 1940s and 1950s, with the confluence of studies from epidemiology, animal experiments, cellular pathology and chemical analytics. Cigarette manufacturers disputed this evidence, as part of an orchestrated conspiracy to salvage cigarette sales. Propagandising the public proved successful, judging from secret tobacco industry measurements of the impact of denialist propaganda. As late as 1960 only one-third of all US doctors believed that the case against cigarettes had been established. The cigarette is the deadliest artefact in the history of human civilisation. > **[The history of the discovery of the cigarette–lung cancer link: evidentiary...](https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/21/2/87)** > > Lung cancer was once a very rare disease, so rare that doctors took special notice when confronted with a case, thinking it a once-in-a-lifetime oddity. Mechanisation and mass marketing towards the end of the 19th century popularised the cigarette... The same could well be true with school sports and C.T.E. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/94 "2017-09-22T16:41:00Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Soccer players use their head a lot - I was just at the US Open Cup match (go SKC!), and there was one sequence where there were 8 (or more - a lot at any rate) head strikes in a row - it really looked like a volleyball game with the ball never touching the ground. Remember that it isn’t just head injuries that cause CTE. Any sudden impact to the body that can make the head jerk around adds to the problem…and the damage is cumulative, so you have to start the clock at when a person first starts these activities. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/95 "2017-09-22T16:41:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s called common sense. Sense is **never** common. _Common sense_ in practice is nothing more than a bunch of biases collected over the years and assumed to be true. Scientific examination of those assumed truths is the only way to establish if they are true. A very high degree of them are found to be false. Yet these cherished beliefs continue to be strongly held by many, despite objective evidence to the contrary. The thinking person lets go of their biases and examines the evidence. The non-thinking person rejects the evidence in favor of their belief. Which are you? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/96 "2017-09-22T16:53:06Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > To be fair, I suspect that he was including playing at lower levels in that “12 plus years.” > > If we make the assumption that an NFL player played the game throughout high school and college (a reasonable assumption, in most but not all cases), and possibly in middle school, that’d mean that the typical professional player might have 8-10 years of football in his past before joining the NFL. Exactly. I was counting junior high, high school, college, and few years in the NFL. That’s a lot of time for cumulative head injuries. No one walks away from the NFL completely unscathed. Everyone agrees that more head injuries results in a worse outcome in the person’s later life? Right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/97 "2017-09-22T16:58:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Exactly. > > I was counting junior high, high school, college, and few years in the NFL. That’s a lot of time for cumulative head injuries. No one walks away from the NFL completely unscathed. > > Everyone agrees that more head injuries results in a worse outcome in the person’s later life? Since you haven’t defined what you mean by “later life”, I cannot agree. How can a head injury when the skull is thinner and softer and the brain is still developing be less injurious than a brain injury when one is an adult? edited to add: The times in history when “everyone agreed” can be counted on the fingers of one foot. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/98 "2017-09-22T17:01:51Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Yeah, a lot of my patients had a LOT of concussions and other assorted head trauma as kids, both from abuse and from life on the streets. > > It tends to disinhibit a lot of bad behavioral urges, unfortunately. **Qadgop** - a question, Doctor: are you saying that CTE is an “accelerant”? So if someone grows up a Bad Seed, acquiring CTE is only going to reinforce those Bad Seed behaviors, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/99 "2017-09-22T17:42:39Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **Qadgop** - a question, Doctor: are you saying that CTE is an “accelerant”? So if someone grows up a Bad Seed, acquiring CTE is only going to reinforce those Bad Seed behaviors, yes? Just making an observation. But I wager that for some, it brings out behavior they’d have been able to suppress had they not had brain injuries. A lot of being an adult is due to the brain finally getting mature enough to keep in check its own more primitive drives. The total person and their behavior is the result of many, many different factors though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/100 "2017-09-25T15:54:19Z")
New article about how [Football Can Damage Kids’ Brains — Even If They Don’t Get Concussions.](http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/09/19/youth-football-concussions) > [@](#): > > Kids who start playing tackle football before the age of 12 are at much higher risk of developing behavioral and emotional troubles as adults, according to a new study. > > Researchers found much higher rates of depression, apathy and other neurological problems among those who started young — whether or not they suffered concussions. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784/101 "2017-09-25T16:14:48Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > The entire reason we have science is because common sense isn’t good enough. . . . I thought it was the other way around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-cell/784784.md?page=4)