# AAUP condemns USF for firing a professor charged with terrorism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035 "2003-06-15T16:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/1 "2003-06-15T16:30:04Z")
[The American Association of University Professors passed the resolution at a meeting in Washington, condemning university President Judy Genshaft for suspending Sami Al-Arian and then firing him without a hearing before his faculty peers.](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-fprof15jun15,0,3076990.story?coll=sfla-news-florida) However, the AAUP did not issue a censure. Censure from the group is seen as an embarrassing stigma in academia that can make it harder to recruit and retain faculty members and obtain some research grants. It also could have barred the university from forming a Phi Beta Kappa honor society chapter. However, the AAUP held out the possibility that they still might issue a censure. Questions for debate:[ol][li]Was USF right to fire Al-Arian?[_]Was the AAUP right to condemn USF?[_]Should the AAUP censure USF?[/ol] I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, it seems wrong to fire someone who hasn’t been convicted. Innocent until proven guilty. It seems right for the AAUP to stand up for professors.[/li] OTOH from what I’ve read, there is overwhelming evidence that Al-Arian really was a terrorist. It doesn’t seem right to have a terrorist on a university faculty. ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/2 "2003-06-15T18:17:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*OTOH from what I’ve read, there is overwhelming evidence that Al-Arian really was a terrorist. It doesn’t seem right to have a terrorist on a university faculty. \*\* Wrong, there is evidence that he was a **terrorist supporter**. He wasn’t an active planner or participants of any terrorist act, he simply may have donated money to unsavoury organisations. Let’s try not to call people we don’t like something they’re not just to make them sound like even worse people. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/3 "2003-06-15T18:37:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnuMondo \* > \*\*Let’s try not to call people we don’t like something they’re not just to make them sound like even worse people. \*\* Guilt by association; if you do not denounce terrorists, you are supporting terrorism; if you support terrorists, you are a terrorist . This is part and parcel of the Bush Doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/4 "2003-06-15T20:06:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fear Itself \* > \*\*Guilt by association; if you do not denounce terrorists, you are supporting terrorism; if you support terrorists, you are a terrorist . This is part and parcel of the Bush Doctrine. \*\* ] Um, no. I haven’t heard of anyone being arrested for “not denouncing terrorism”. Al-Arian is charged with providing **material support** to terrorism. Raising money for Islamic Jihad is and should be a crime. As for the “Bush Doctrine” (by which I presume you mean the famous and oft-misquoted “You are with us, or you are with the terrorists” declaration), it is a **foreign policy** (read: not relevant) doctrine which holds that countries which intentionally harbor and protect al-Qaeda will be treated as enemies of the United States. Seems reasonable to me, though if you really want to debate its morality rather than take silly little partisan snipes at a President you don’t like in a thread where they don’t belong, I will gladly discuss it in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/5 "2003-06-15T20:09:57Z")
Excuse me, I meant he is charged with providing material support to a terrorist group, not to terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/6 "2003-06-15T20:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > > However, the AAUP did not issue a censure. Censure from the group is seen as an embarrassing stigma in academia that can make it harder to recruit and retain faculty members and obtain some research grants. It also could have barred the university from forming a Phi Beta Kappa honor society chapter. However, the AAUP held out the possibility that they still might issue a censure. > \*\* This is the part I wanted to respond to – I’m not making light of an AAUP censure, but in my professional opinion, it’s not as dire as the linked article might have one believe. The entire SUNY system has been under an AAUP censure since 1978, for example. Yeshiva University has been censured since 1982. From the AAUP web site: > [@](#): > > Placing the name of an institution on this list does not mean that censure is visited either upon the whole of the institution or upon the faculty, but specifically upon its present administration. The term “administration” includes the administrative officers and the governing board of the institution. This censure does not affect the eligibility of nonmembers for membership in the Association, nor does it affect the individual rights of members at the institution in question. > > Members of the Association have often considered it to be their duty, in order to indicate their support of the principles violated, to refrain from accepting appointment to an institution so long as it remains on the censure list. Since circumstances differ widely from case to case, the Association does not assert that such an unqualified obligation exists for its members; it does urge that, before accepting appointments, they seek information on present conditions of academic freedom and tenure from the Association’s Washington office and prospective departmental colleagues. The Association leaves it to the discretion of the individual, possessed of the facts, to make the proper decision. In some ways, the AAUP could be compared to a labor union. One of the purposes of this organization is to investigate and make statement upon cases of individual faculty members who have not received fair consideration under what the AAUP has established as its own guidelines for academic freedom. I’m not convinced the AAUP would have much to say had the process for the firing of Al-Arian been more in keeping with their recommendations for faculty review. They’re not saying anything about terrorist activities, they’re criticizing the methods of the institution’s administration. Making statements about cases such as this is what the AAUP _does._ ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/7 "2003-06-15T21:01:13Z")
I agree: they have legitimate grounds to criticize the manner in which this issue was carried out. The actual outcome is not something that they have any right or reason to comment on (and it was probably the right outcome). ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/8 "2003-06-16T14:59:42Z")
Can we all just agree that Al-Arian probably did a **Very Naughty Thing** and move on? In that the exact word we ascribe to him has nothing to do with the moral or legal situation? My take on this is that he should have been put on “Administrative Leave”. The administration would look properly embarressed, and would dump him as soon as he is arraigned, etc. If by some miracle, Al-Arian proves his inccocence to the satisfaction of the locals, they could quietly let him back on, so long as he kept his mouth shut. Nice and diplomatic-like. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/9 "2003-06-16T15:12:32Z")
Why should he have to keep his mouth shut if he was found innocent? And why should he have to face the loss of his job, or being suspended, based only on an accusation? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/10 "2003-06-16T15:22:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*Can we all just agree that Al-Arian probably did a **Very Naughty Thing** and move on? \*\* He’s accused of being part of a conspiracy to commit mass murder. Separate questions are whether or not he’s guilty and whether or not the university followed appropriate procedures, but the charge itself goes way beyond “very naughty.” ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaup-condemns-usf-for-firing-a-professor-charged-with-terrorism/182035/11 "2003-06-17T20:09:20Z")
Hamas, as an organization, does more than promote terror. There is a question here akin to the “dual use” question with regards to selling material to Iraq. Some of the money raised for Hamas would probably go to funding terrorist activities, some would probably go towards benign ends. This, as with so many things, is a grey area. Saying he’s accused of conspiring to commit mass murder is accurate, but so is saying he conspired to provide food and clothing to palestinian refugees. This is a sticky case and I lean towards the “innocent until proven guilty” even if the accusations are of particularly heinous crimes. No censure or punishment until the verdict is in. Otherwise we get witch hunts. Enjoy, Steven