# Abandon the gimmick/hook, then succeed **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 4, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634 "2017-11-04T01:42:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/21 "2017-11-04T19:57:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, but they had the mop top look when they first became a major success. On the other hand it [wasn’t](http://www.londonguitaracademy.com/wp-content/uploads/Famous-London-Bands-Famous-London-Musicians1.jpg) [really](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/4e/dd/4b/4edd4b820305969fe26fc20ee0eb3a60.jpg) [particularly](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3XvRyULbdU/hqdefault.jpg) [distinctive](http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rock-band-the-yardbirds-pose-for-a-portrait-in-1965-jeff-beck-paul-picture-id74286607?s=612x612) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/22 "2017-11-04T20:18:19Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > On the other hand it [wasn’t](http://www.londonguitaracademy.com/wp-content/uploads/Famous-London-Bands-Famous-London-Musicians1.jpg) [really](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/4e/dd/4b/4edd4b820305969fe26fc20ee0eb3a60.jpg) [particularly](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3XvRyULbdU/hqdefault.jpg) [distinctive](http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rock-band-the-yardbirds-pose-for-a-portrait-in-1965-jeff-beck-paul-picture-id74286607?s=612x612) They all borrowed the look from [this guy](http://www.threestooges.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/MoeHoward.jpg). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/23 "2017-11-04T20:56:56Z")
Spyro the Dragon had a series of successful video games on the Playstation. In his later years as the games lost popularity Activision tied his name to a new style of figurine video games with Skylanders:Spyro’s Adventure. The game and the game style was hugely successful despite the fact that nobody really cared if Spyro was in it or not. The Skylander sequels dropped his name completely and he was no longer a part of the series. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/24 "2017-11-04T20:59:42Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > You sort of buried the lede there by not mentioning Alex’s gimmick of being a typical “Young Republican” conservative type. I think that part was fairly minor in the early days of the series and blew up into a major factor only after the whole series started to focus on Alex. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/25 "2017-11-04T21:52:12Z")
John Cougar became John Cougar Mellencamp became John Mellencamp without missing many beats. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/26 "2017-11-04T22:20:09Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > John Cougar became John Cougar Mellencamp became John Mellencamp without missing many beats. He hated the name Johnny Cougar. It was hung on him by his manager, Tony DeFries, who was also David Bowie’s manager and wanted to market Mellencamp as a major pop idol, which Mellencamp just didn’t see himself as. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/27 "2017-11-04T22:43:36Z")
Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery was 100% a spoof of James Bond especially the Sean Connery era and specifically his two goofiest films, You Only Live Twice and Diamonds Are Forever, taking scenes and set-pieces from those films verbatim and parodying them. The film was a minor hit and made enough money for a sequel to be made, though despite the title “The Spy Who Shagged Me” was more a general parody of 60s Spy/Action movies in general with nothing really too Bond specific, and wound up being a massive hit. Which lead to the third film “Goldmember” which seemed to drop the Bond parody entirely (except for legacy elements from the first two) and focus on being a general action-comedy movie which was also a massive hit. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/28 "2017-11-04T22:48:46Z")
There’s a big difference between “something changed, and it became successful” and “they abandoned their hook/gimmick, and it became successful”. One I’ve never been very certain of is _Jeopardy_. It has this weird gimmick where the answers must be phrased as questions. But that’s basically just pro-forma… the show would be no different without it. In its early days, was the “phrase as questions” thing actually more relevant? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/29 "2017-11-04T22:52:30Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > There’s a big difference between “something changed, and it became successful” and “they abandoned their hook/gimmick, and it became successful”. > One I’ve never been very certain of is _Jeopardy_. It has this weird gimmick where the answers must be phrased as questions. But that’s basically just pro-forma… the show would be no different without it. In its early days, was the “phrase as questions” thing actually more relevant? Yes, they always emphasized that, even back when Art Fleming was the host. It was the entire premise of the game, suggested when Merv Griffin’s (the show’s creator) wife asked him what if there were a game where the contestants were given the answers? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/30 "2017-11-04T23:58:31Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > One I’ve never been very certain of is _Jeopardy_. It has this weird gimmick where the answers must be phrased as questions. But that’s basically just pro-forma… the show would be no different without it. In its early days, was the “phrase as questions” thing actually more relevant? It was topical - game shows were in trouble because contestants had been given the answers in advance, so having the gimmick that answers were given and questions sought was a way of contrasting Jeopardy from the shows that had been involved in the scandal. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/31 "2017-11-05T00:51:54Z")
Perhaps an example is the 1980-1981 TV program _I’m a Big Girl Now_. For the first 17 episodes of the show, the heroine worked in a think tank. Her boss and two of her coworkers were major characters. For the last 3 episodes of the show (which were the last episodes ever shown), she worked for a newspaper. Her boss and two of her coworkers were major characters and worked at the same newspaper. All four characters were played by the same four actors. There was no explanation of what happened. There was no mention of people moving to a different job that had nothing to do with the previous job. Apparently after the first 17 episodes, the network complained that the show was getting bad ratings. The people running the show decided that the problem was that nobody knew how to write plausibly about working for a think tank. So they decided just to change the jobs the stars did to being newspaper reporters and editors, since the people running the show knew something about how a newspaper worked. So the show gave up on what was odd for everyone watching or making the show, working at a think tank, and changed it to working at a newspaper, which was something easier to understand for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/32 "2017-11-05T01:00:45Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > It was topical - game shows were in trouble because contestants had been given the answers in advance, so having the gimmick that answers were given and questions sought was a way of contrasting Jeopardy from the shows that had been involved in the scandal. The game show scandals were in 1958. _Jeopardy_ premiered six years later. There was no connection. Note that there were plenty of game shows that survived the scandals and plenty of shows that were introduced a year or two after. Regulations were passed to make sure the cheating wouldn’t happen again, and game shows continued. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/33 "2017-11-05T01:07:31Z")
I just realized that I misunderstood what was being asked for in this thread. Yes, my example was of a showing starting off with something a little unusual and then changing to something more conventional. The problem is that the show didn’t succeed but got cancelled anyway. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/34 "2017-11-05T01:08:05Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The game show scandals were in 1958. _Jeopardy_ premiered six years later. There was no connection. > > Note that there were plenty of game shows that survived the scandals and plenty of shows that were introduced a year or two after. Regulations were passed to make sure the cheating wouldn’t happen again, and game shows continued. The game show scandals were still on Merv Griffin’s mind when he (or his wife) came up with the idea for _Jeopardy_. According to an interview he gave in 1964, Griffin stated: > [@](#): > > My wife Julann just came up with the idea one day when we were in a plane bringing us back to New York City from Duluth. I was mulling over game show ideas, when she noted that there had not been a successful “question and answer” game on the air since the quiz show scandals. Why not do a switch, and give the answers to the contestant and let them come up with the question? > **[Jeopardy! | Conception and development](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeopardy!#Conception_and_development)** > > In a 1963 Associated Press profile released shortly before the original Jeopardy! series premiered, Merv Griffin offered the following account of how he created the quiz show: ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/35 "2017-11-05T01:28:33Z")
_Happy Days_ was supposedly set in the 50s. I’m not sure it ever really embraced that accurately, but once it became a multi-cam live audience sitcom it was purely superficial, and even the haircuts and collars were modern era. Arguably the same happened with _That 70s Show_. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/36 "2017-11-05T01:32:11Z")
I have a couple solid sitcom examples. \*\*Seinfeld \*\*started out with Jerry doing a brief bit of stand-up at the beginning (and sometimes again halfway through?) the episode. It was awkward - is he supposed to be Real Jerry or Character Jerry in these bits? It didn’t last long. And **Frasier** , initially, started every episode with a “guest caller” - someone calling in to his radio talk show. The gimmick was that the voice was done by an actual celebrity. Dropping both of these gimmicks, IMO, made both shows better. mmm ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/37 "2017-11-05T04:33:49Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > \*\*Seinfeld \*\*started out with Jerry doing a brief bit of stand-up at the beginning (and sometimes again halfway through?) the episode. It was awkward - is he supposed to be Real Jerry or Character Jerry in these bits? It didn’t last long. They only stopped doing that in Season 8 (of 9). ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/38 "2017-11-05T16:07:35Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I think you’ve mixed things up, rendering it a little useless for this thread: the one where Garner was a sheriff – who got killed off, and was promptly replaced by his more-violent brother – was _Nichols_, which (a) wasn’t a hit with said brother, and which (b) featured Garner as said brother; _Maverick_ did just fine with Garner as a civilian-type citizen who survives just fine, sure as Moore wasn’t brought in to up the violence. Thank you for the correction. Note to self: Look things up before you type. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/39 "2017-11-05T19:27:59Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > _Happy Days_ was supposedly set in the 50s. I’m not sure it ever really embraced that accurately, but once it became a multi-cam live audience sitcom it was purely superficial, and even the haircuts and collars were modern era. Arguably the same happened with _That 70s Show_. People perceived it as taking place in the 50’s. 90% of the “cool guys” in my high school looked like the Fonz. On “dress up” day 50% of the girls wore poodle skirts. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/40 "2017-11-05T20:35:39Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > They only stopped doing that in Season 8 (of 9). Wow, I thought it was used only in the first couple seasons. mmm [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634.md?page=3)