# Abandon the gimmick/hook, then succeed **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 4, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634 "2017-11-04T01:42:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/41 "2017-11-05T21:20:36Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > M_A_S\*H started out as a dark war comedy, then became a standard anti-war show. Lasted 11 seasons. _Good Morning, Vietnam_ was supposed to be a TV series like WKRP with the military elements of M_A_S\*H but nobody was interested until it became a two-hour vehicle for Robin Williams’ improv. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/42 "2017-11-08T13:06:10Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > _Maverick_ starred James Garner as a non-violent sheriff in the Old West. Its popularity waned (or maybe never accrued in the first place; I don’t have time to look this up right now), so Garner’s character was killed and Roger Moore was brought in as his presumably more-violent brother. Maverick was a very popular show. James Garner was not a sheriff, though there was an episode where he pretended to be one in order to solve some problem or other. He was a professional gambler, as was his brother, played by Jack Kelley. Hence their “dandified” clothes, and the references to riverboats in the theme song. James Garner left because of a contract dispute. Roger Moore was brought in to play a cousin, but the show tanked without Garner. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/43 "2017-11-08T17:41:35Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Kaley Cuomo **Cuoco** ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/44 "2017-11-08T18:02:34Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > _Happy Days_ was supposedly set in the 50s. I’m not sure it ever really embraced that accurately, but once it became a multi-cam live audience sitcom it was purely superficial, and even the haircuts and collars were modern era. Arguably the same happened with _That 70s Show_. That seems to happen with most period TV shows. The writers wring as much as they can out of “look how different this decade was” in the first season and then have to revert to writing a normal television show. Even Mad Men had a lot more “wink and nod” 60’s jokes in it’s first season. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/45 "2017-11-08T18:20:51Z")
I was actually thinking about this last night as we watched a good – but not _really_ good – British police procedural series. Among other cliches, there were scenes wherein both cop and criminal had guns but instead of shooting had a long and tedious discussion: “You really don’t want to do this, Criminal Guy, now put the gun down” “No, Copper, you’re the one who doesn’t want to do this . . .” Blah, blah, blah until inevitably it looked like the copper was going to die then was saved at the last moment. These kind of scenes have become so gimmicky/hackneyed that they instantly take me out of the plot and cause intense eyerolling :rolleyes: \* I was thinking about the difference between this oft-repeated scene where a long and philosophical discussion is conducted while guns are pointed, then x, y, z happens, and shows like _The Wire_ and _The Sopranos_ (especially _The Wire_). ISTM that in 99% of cases this kind of chit chat probably doesn’t happen and death by gunfire is sudden with no discussion. In particular, I’m thinking about the scenes in _Wire_ when Idris Elba and later Omar are suddenly and shockingly blown away without prelude. In sum, this is a gimmick that isn’t often used in more excellent crime and punishment shows and I personally hope it goes the way of the dodo for lesser shows. \*My other eyerolls include the inevitable kidnapping by a rapist of the troubled female cop who was raped as a teen; the snatching of cops’ kids and/or wife as a negotiating tool; and the “this is OUR case, FBI guy, and we’re keeping it!!” tropes. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/46 "2017-11-08T18:33:22Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > People perceived it as taking place in the 50’s. 90% of the “cool guys” in my high school looked like the Fonz. On “dress up” day 50% of the girls wore poodle skirts. I found – and still do – the era setting of _Laverne and Shirley_ (which was a\* Happy Days\* spinoff). Was it supposed to be the 50s? 60s? There was a lot of time slippage . . . ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/47 "2017-11-08T18:56:33Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > I found – and still do – the era setting of _Laverne and Shirley_ (which was a\* Happy Days\* spinoff). Was it supposed to be the 50s? 60s? There was a lot of time slippage . . . The natural progression of time could have taken L&S into the 1960s (in fact, Happy Days itself got into the 1960s that way), but, as you say, there was a lot of time slippage. In one episode of L&S, an acquaintance of theirs turns out to be a fan of Star Trek - a cliche’d costume wearing mega-fan-type that probably never really existed, and which wasn’t even imagined by an unsympathetic general public until the mid-1970s. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/48 "2017-11-08T19:14:12Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > The natural progression of time could have taken L&S into the 1960s (in fact, Happy Days itself got into the 1960s that way), but, as you say, there was a lot of time slippage. In one episode of L&S, an acquaintance of theirs turns out to be a fan of Star Trek - a cliche’d costume wearing mega-fan-type that probably never really existed, and which wasn’t even imagined by an unsympathetic general public until the mid-1970s. Did they also move the characters from Milwaukee to California? IIRC, other characters like Lenny, Squiggy, and Carmine came? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/49 "2017-11-08T19:16:49Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > Did they also move the characters from Milwaukee to California? IIRC, other characters like Lenny, Squiggy, and Carmine came? Yes, and yes. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/50 "2017-11-08T20:02:20Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I have a couple solid sitcom examples. > > \*\*Seinfeld \*\*started out with Jerry doing a brief bit of stand-up at the beginning (and sometimes again halfway through?) the episode. It was awkward - is he supposed to be Real Jerry or Character Jerry in these bits? It didn’t last long. The initial premise of the show was that it would explore how Jerry came up with his bits for his stand up act. For example he had a bit about how a perspective date’s profession has a big impact on women but none on men. The show that featured that bit had Jerry’s girlfriend break up with him because she did not respect him after seeing his act despite the fact that she was a cashier. It mostly lost that aspect and became the Larry David inspired comedy of manners that we are familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/51 "2017-11-08T20:43:06Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > I found – and still do – the era setting of _Laverne and Shirley_ (which was a\* Happy Days\* spinoff). Was it supposed to be the 50s? 60s? There was a lot of time slippage . . . In the title sequence they show L & S air kissing an early Beatles poster, as far as I know that’s the only reference to the time period they were supposed to live in. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634/52 "2017-11-08T21:02:53Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > In the title sequence they show L & S air kissing an early Beatles poster, as far as I know that’s the only reference to the time period they were supposed to live in. After the series moved its setting to California, I remember Laverne and a friend singing _(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction_ in one episode. That would put the timeline up to 1965. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandon-the-gimmick-hook-then-succeed/800634.md?page=2)