# Abandoned Babies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 7, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621 "2008-11-07T12:30:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/1 "2008-11-07T12:30:01Z")
> **[Did people actually abandon babies on doorsteps?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343921/did-people-actually-abandon-babies-on-doorsteps)** > [@Cecil Adams](#): > > One thing that’s changed in recent years is public awareness of abandonment, notwithstanding apparent lingering ignorance in sections of Wyoming. What does this sentence mean? Is Wyoming somehow notorious for a disporpotionate number of abandonded babies? Has some Wyoming politician made some public gaffe about this issue? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/2 "2008-11-07T12:49:46Z")
The person who sent in the question has a listed location of Wyoming. Given her apparent lack of knowledge Cecil takes the open shot. ---
**Author:** ![Schnookered](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@Schnookered](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnookered)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/3 "2008-11-07T14:24:06Z")
Though, as usual, Cecil’s response is a fine piece of research, I’m of the opinion that the more direct answer to Sarah from Wyoming’s question: > [@](#): > > Did people really do this back when these cartoons were made? Was there a rash of baby abandonment somewhere back in the 40s, 50s, and 60s that cartoonists decided to satirize? is that the notion was in popular culture back then on account of the tale of Silas Marner: hard-hearted miser finds abandoned baby on doorstep and becomes a better man for it. To my mind, anyway, it’s not far from the plots of most of those cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/4 "2008-11-07T14:39:20Z")
This topic reminds me of a book I used to have (and probably still have, somewhere). It was part of one of those Time-Life series about spooky things, and it mentioned a particular type of malevolent spectre/spirit/ooky thing that was the ghost of a child abandoned to die by exposure. The creature even had a particular name, which, alas, I can’t recall. Does anyone know the name of this thing? Thanks, RR ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/5 "2008-11-07T17:06:54Z")
> [@RiverRunner](#): > > This topic reminds me of a book I used to have (and probably still have, somewhere). It was part of one of those Time-Life series about spooky things, and it mentioned a particular type of malevolent spectre/spirit/ooky thing that was the ghost of a child abandoned to die by exposure. The creature even had a particular name, which, alas, I can’t recall. Does anyone know the name of this thing? I remember subscribing to the same Time-Life series of books, this was back in the late 1970s or early 1980s, right? They were hardcover books, each with tales of a specific genre. One was Arthurian Legends, and another was Spooky things. I remember that abandoned children were avenged by some kind of spirit. It would look smoky or like coalesced fog, creep into the room of the parents through a keyhole or under the door, become shaped like a baby, and crawl up onto the bed. The parents would awaken, and be unable to do anything, riveted by fear. The smoky baby form crawls up across the chest of the mother, and then sucks her breath from her. At least that’s how I remember it, but it’s been nearly 30 years since I saw those books. I’ll see if they’re in the garage or something… ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/6 "2008-11-08T01:27:58Z")
_Silas Marner_, sure, but it’s not forget Skeezix Wallet. ---
**Author:** ![GregE625](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b77776/32.png) [@GregE625](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GregE625)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/7 "2008-11-08T02:32:06Z")
“in China tens of thousands of baby girls are thrown into garbage dumps or otherwise disposed of annually.” That is quite a statement to make. Since China isn’t exactly open to western journalism, I wonder where there is evidence that this is happening. ---
**Author:** ![geniios](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@geniios](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geniios)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/8 "2008-11-08T12:57:40Z")
Ok so why only the mothers breath, part of this whole issue is the lack of responsibility and rights of the father in these cases. But he always gets let off the hook. > [@SeanArenas](#): > > I remember subscribing to the same Time-Life series of books, this was back in the late 1970s or early 1980s, right? They were hardcover books, each with tales of a specific genre. One was Arthurian Legends, and another was Spooky things. > > I remember that abandoned children were avenged by some kind of spirit. It would look smoky or like coalesced fog, creep into the room of the parents through a keyhole or under the door, become shaped like a baby, and crawl up onto the bed. > > The parents would awaken, and be unable to do anything, riveted by fear. The smoky baby form crawls up across the chest of the mother, and then sucks her breath from her. > > At least that’s how I remember it, but it’s been nearly 30 years since I saw those books. I’ll see if they’re in the garage or something… ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/9 "2008-11-10T03:40:53Z")
> [@GregE625](#): > > “in China tens of thousands of baby girls are thrown into garbage dumps or otherwise disposed of annually.” > > That is quite a statement to make. Since China isn’t exactly open to western journalism, I wonder where there is evidence that this is happening. Estimates based of statistical evidence. The same way we know that in countries where abortion is only permitted for medical reasons and boys are more treasured, a disproportionate number of girl fetuses are certified as having “birth defects.” ---
**Author:** ![GregE625](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b77776/32.png) [@GregE625](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GregE625)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/10 "2008-11-10T06:14:45Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Estimates based of statistical evidence. The same way we know that in countries where abortion is only permitted for medical reasons and boys are more treasured, a disproportionate number of girl fetuses are certified as having “birth defects.” That’s not a bad way to determine that there are fewer girls than boys, and certainly indicates human intervention. But is it from selective abortions or that “tens of thousands of baby girls are thrown into garbage dumps or otherwise disposed of annually”? Of course the point of the column is that Cecil believes that life begins at conception and personhood begins with brain waves, so perhaps there is no need for a distinction between aborted babies and live births. ---
**Author:** ![fubarassociation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b4bc9f/32.png) [@fubarassociation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubarassociation)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/11 "2008-11-10T06:33:47Z")
Actually, the column the OP cited was last Friday’s (11/7) about abandoned babies on doorsteps, not the When Does Life Begin column from 2 weeks ago (10/24). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abandoned-babies/471621/12 "2008-11-10T21:02:13Z")
> [@GregE625](#): > > That’s not a bad way to determine that there are fewer girls than boys, and certainly indicates human intervention. But is it from selective abortions or that “tens of thousands of baby girls are thrown into garbage dumps or otherwise disposed of annually”? > > Of course the point of the column is that Cecil believes that life begins at conception and personhood begins with brain waves, so perhaps there is no need for a distinction between aborted babies and live births. Depends on where you get your data from - if you know that the adult population is more boys than girls - by a statistically significant margin - you know something is happening to girls at some point. If you know that at birth boys and girls are close to even (as gender biology goes) - and you get to adulthood with a lot more boys than girls - than something is happening to those girls after birth. China doesn’t have the best pre-natal care in the world out in rural areas - it isn’t like a sonogram to determine gender is always done as is normal in the U.S. So you give birth - then you make your decision. Where those girls show up in adoption centers - we know they weren’t tossed into dumpsters. Where those girls are just “missing” ---- well, we don’t know what happened to them, but that they are not allowed to live is a pretty good guess.