# ABC hiding Epstein's story **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137 "2019-11-07T18:50:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/41 "2019-11-08T15:44:07Z")
The media isn’t going to initiate a story about somebody committing a crime unless it has evidence to back it up. There’s a significant exception; if people start talking about the crime, then the media will report of the talk. Neither candidate wanted to raise the issue of Epstein in the 2016 campaign because both were implicated. So neither candidate initiated talk on the topic. And the media didn’t have enough evidence to initiate the story. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/42 "2019-11-08T15:53:28Z")
What do we all think of Alan Dershowitz’s comments? I think Epstein would have been happy to have a top criminal lawyer owe him favors. Dershowitz says that he kept his underwear on when an old Russian woman massaged him at Epstein’s party. But then he goes on to say that _paying for sex with a 16-year old girl should be perfectly legal for the john even if the girl is guilty of prostitution._ :smack: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/43 "2019-11-08T16:03:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What do we all think of Alan Dershowitz’s comments? I think Epstein would have been happy to have a top criminal lawyer owe him favors. > > Dershowitz says that he kept his underwear on when an old Russian woman massaged him at Epstein’s party. But then he goes on to say that _paying for sex with a 16-year old girl should be perfectly legal for the john even if the girl is guilty of prostitution._ :smack: Dersh is a disgusting scumbag. Do you have a cite for these particular comments? He’s already a disgusting scumbag based on past comments, but I’m curious about these particular ones. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/44 "2019-11-08T16:18:34Z")
My cite is my memory. It might have been a Youtube in which Dershowitz himself is seen saying these things. I could Google, but I’d be starting from the same point as you. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/45 "2019-11-08T16:24:34Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > FoxNews/Limbaugh/Infowars being good or bad is immaterial to this thread. Actually, no. > **[Fox “news side” anchor tries to deny that National Enquirer’s catch-and-kills...](https://www.mediamatters.org/shannon-bream/fox-news-side-anchor-tries-deny-national-enquirers-catch-and-kills-trump-included)** > [@](#): > > Farrow then mentioned another instance when the Enquirer covered up a story, involving allegations of Trump assaulting underage girls in concert with the late Jeffrey Epstein. **“That’s another one where we’re not sure if there’s a there there** , but … it’s interesting that in those cases, there were still — there were still resources extended to kill these stories whether they were rumors or real.” > > Bream then said that the love child story, as well as an anonymous rape allegation, were “not backed by convincing evidence, so it didn’t go anywhere.” The reality is that if it was not for the threats to and buying of silence of many involved by the Enquirer, other partisan media or other powerful groups then a lot would have been reported, and corporate media in the end does love to report about train wrecks. But, usually after the disaster can not be hidden or when someone does stick their neck first. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/46 "2019-11-08T17:14:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The wealthy and powerful (speaking generally) aren’t interested in fighting sexual assault, rape, and abuse of women and girls (and boys, in some cases), and in fact are often directly opposed to this fight Unless you count Bill and Melinda Gates, Peter and Jennifer Buffett (NoVo Foundation), Fred Meyer (Meyer Foundation) and other wealthy philanthropists who’ve donated $$$ [as part of efforts to combat rape and sexual abuse](http://cfw.org/?news=in-pursuit-of-justice-nonprofits-and-funders-push-for-rape-kit-reform). Your ridiculous generalizations are not helpful nor do I see any relevant connection to the alleged Epstein Coverup. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/47 "2019-11-08T17:17:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Unless you count Bill and Melinda Gates, Peter and Jennifer Buffett (NoVo Foundation), Fred Meyer (Meyer Foundation) and other wealthy philanthropists who’ve donated $$$ [as part of efforts to combat rape and sexual abuse](http://cfw.org/?news=in-pursuit-of-justice-nonprofits-and-funders-push-for-rape-kit-reform). > > Your ridiculous generalizations are not helpful nor do I see any relevant connection to the alleged Epstein Coverup. A few good folks don’t exculpate our society and powerful institutions, which are largely geared against victims and survivors of abuse. This has only barely begun to change, and we still have a long way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/48 "2019-11-08T17:41:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The wealthy and powerful (speaking generally) aren’t interested in fighting sexual assault, rape, and abuse of women and girls (and boys, in some cases), and in fact are often directly opposed to this fight. Especially if it threatens their access to the British royals, or Hillary’s chances in an election. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/49 "2019-11-08T17:44:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Especially if it threatens their access to the British royals, or Hillary’s chances in an election. > > Regards, > Shodan Very likely so. The royals and Clintons are by no means exempt from my criticism. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/50 "2019-11-08T17:48:18Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > For three years? What happened to “believe all women”? It wasn’t high journalistic standards, it wa fear and/or money. > In the Kavannaugh case, everyone run the story with just one person’s 30-year-old memories which nobody else could verify. Here, there is a pedophile ring of powerful people, including a former US president, and suddendly they need a note from mom. > … > … > > The ammount of deflecting in this thread is, again, astonishing. Some motherfucking rich people rape minors for years and what we get “I don’t like the website”. I never expected this strong defense of child rapists here. > … No one doubts that Epstein did some horrible things. It’s that Prince Andrew part _“Project Veritas published a hot-mic speech given by Amy Robach complaining that they new about it three years ago and that ABC canned the story, apparently, because (on top of other things) prince Andrew was part of the ring and the the Royal Family won’t give them any interviews if they aired …”_ So, in order to back up this Extraordinary claims we require extraordinary evidence, and Project Veritas doesnt count- as being extraordinarily UNrelaible is not what is meant by extraordinary evidence. And other that Bill Clinton availed himself of a few free flights on a private jet back in 2002 and 2003, there is nothing linking him to any sort of “pedophile ring”. Trump also had dealings with Epstein- and much more recently. > **[The Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy theories, explained](https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/aug/13/explaining-jeffrey-epstein-conspiracy-theories-lin/)** > > The details of Jeffrey Epstein’s apparent suicide have yet to come into full view, but that did nothing to stem the tide and in fact your cite has been specifically debunked by Snopes: [https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/11/05/abc-says-interview-with-epstein-accuser-wasnt-ready-to-air/](https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/11/05/abc-says-interview-with-epstein-accuser-wasnt-ready-to-air/) In fact , your casual assertion that there was a “pedophile ring” is doubtful and unproven: > **[What We Know About Jeffrey Epstein’s ‘Pedophile’ Island](https://www.thecut.com/2019/08/jeffrey-epstein-virgin-islands-little-st-james-house.html)** > > Here’s everything we know about the accused sex-trafficker’s main residence. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/51 "2019-11-08T18:28:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In fact , your casual assertion that there was a “pedophile ring” is doubtful and unproven: > > [Jeffrey Epstein’s Little St. James Island: What We Know](https://www.thecut.com/2019/08/jeffrey-epstein-virgin-islands-little-st-james-house.html) From your site: “The island has, over the years, gained a handful of sinister nicknames: “Orgy Island,” “Pedophile Island,” and “Island of Sin.”” “He allegedly ran his trafficking ring there.” “According to Fox News, Epstein had a dedicated team of workers on the island who trafficked girls as young as 12 to his clients” “Once on the island, the underage girls and women say they were coerced into sexual encounters and, in some cases, even held hostage” “Scully said that he frequently saw groups of girls who “couldn’t have been more than 15 or 16 years old” riding ATVs and bathing topless.” I supposed it depends on your definition of ‘ring’ and I understand that a lot of these statements are ‘alleged’, but there was clearly something going on and your casual assertion that there wasn’t is a slap in the face to the victims. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/52 "2019-11-08T23:19:37Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > but there was clearly something going on and your casual assertion that there wasn’t is a slap in the face to the victims. I don’t see where that assertion was made at all. There are 2 different things floating here: 1. Epstein was human garbage and ran an operation that trafficked in women, some incredibly underage. Doesn’t seem like anybody is doubting this part, including **DrDeth** if you read the first sentence of that last post. 2. Epstein ran this operation with several other wealthy people, including Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton. There’s not a lot of evidence of this part but plenty of conspiracy theories asserting it anyway. And that second point is what **DrDeth** was noting. While there’s scant doubt Epstein was up to no good, there’s much less evidence he conspired with all these other public figures to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/53 "2019-11-09T03:22:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > and in fact your cite has been specifically debunked by Snopes: > [https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/11/05/abc-says-interview-with-epstein-accuser-wasnt-ready-to-air/](https://www.snopes.com/ap/2019/11/05/abc-says-interview-with-epstein-accuser-wasnt-ready-to-air/) Was this meant to link to a different article? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/54 "2019-11-09T04:52:16Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > From your site: > “The island has, over the years, gained a handful of sinister nicknames: “Orgy Island,” “Pedophile Island,” and “Island of Sin.”” > > “He allegedly ran his trafficking ring there.” > > “According to Fox News, Epstein had a dedicated team of workers on the island who trafficked girls as young as 12 to his clients” > > “Once on the island, the underage girls and women say they were coerced into sexual encounters and, in some cases, even held hostage” > > “Scully said that he frequently saw groups of girls who “couldn’t have been more than 15 or 16 years old” riding ATVs and bathing topless.” > I supposed it depends on your definition of ‘ring’ and I understand that a lot of these statements are ‘alleged’, but there was clearly something going on and your casual assertion that there wasn’t is a slap in the face to the victims. At no time did I make any assertion that that wasnt something going on. As i said “\*No one doubts that Epstein did some horrible things.” \*That’s different than a \*organized \*'pedophile ring". Epstein took advantage of underage girls, that is proven. He was a scumbag, imho. I am sure Epstein had quite a few victims. But that’s different than Trump and Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton and the Pope all getting together to have pedophile sex orgies. I hope you can see the difference that Epstein being a proven sexual predator and rapist and the vague unproven allegations of there being a organized pedophile sex ring for the rich & famous. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/55 "2019-11-09T04:55:03Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I don’t see where that assertion was made at all. > > There are 2 different things floating here: > > 1. Epstein was human garbage and ran an operation that trafficked in women, some incredibly underage. Doesn’t seem like anybody is doubting this part, including **DrDeth** if you read the first sentence of that last post. > > 2. Epstein ran this operation with several other wealthy people, including Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton. There’s not a lot of evidence of this part but plenty of conspiracy theories asserting it anyway. > > And that second point is what **DrDeth** was noting. While there’s scant doubt Epstein was up to no good, there’s much less evidence he conspired with all these other public figures to do so. Right. One is proven and the second is tinfoil hat territory, since we know Bill never even visited that island, altho Trump maybe did. He did accept a few free plane rides back in 2002. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/56 "2019-11-09T14:47:10Z")
One of the reasons the Drudge Report became so successful is that it published the accusations of the Bill Clinton/ Monica Lewinsky affair while the main stream news outlets decided the bury the story. So liberal media news outlets have a history of doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/57 "2019-11-09T14:51:29Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > One of the reasons the Drudge Report became so successful is that it published the accusations of the Bill Clinton/ Monica Lewinsky affair while the main stream news outlets decided the bury the story. So liberal media news outlets have a history of doing this. Yeah, the liberal media has a history of waiting for evidence. The conservative media doesn’t let a lack of evidence hold them back. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/58 "2019-11-09T16:17:10Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > … > [Alleged allegation:] 2) Epstein ran this operation with several other wealthy people, including Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton. There’s not a lot of evidence of this part but plenty of conspiracy theories asserting it anyway… Is there an allegation that Prince Andrew or Bill Clinton “ran the operation” with Epstein? I thought the allegation was just that Prince Andrew was a “john” (and possibly blackmailee). What about Clinton? He probably didn’t partake in illicit treats: Prince Andrew might pass for “rich Brit you never heard of,” but Clinton is recognizable around the world. No matter how evil or horndoggy Clinton might be, any involvement would be too insecure. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/59 "2019-11-09T17:26:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, in order to back up this Extraordinary claims we require extraordinary evidence, and Project Veritas doesnt count- as being extraordinarily UNrelaible is not what is meant by extraordinary evidence. Veritas didn’t make the claim. A reporter for ABC made the claim after investigating it as well as the claim it was shut down by ABC. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And other that Bill Clinton availed himself of a few free flights on a private jet back in 2002 and 2003, there is nothing linking him to any sort of “pedophile ring”. Trump also had dealings with Epstein- and much more recently. it wasn’t a few flights. It was between 11 and 26 flights and Clinton ditched the secret service on at least 5 of them. [Cite.](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/14/bill-clinton-ditched-secret-service-on-multiple-lo/?utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=chacka&utm_campaign=TWT+-+DSA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0L_di87d5QIVh5OzCh0sVQ2bEAAYASAAEgLhlfD_BwE) I can’t imaging why Bill “I like them young” Clinton would ditch the secret service on trips to pedo-island. > [@DrDeth](#): > > In fact , your casual assertion that there was a “pedophile ring” is doubtful and unproven: He’s a convicted sex offender and paid compensation to dozens of under-aged girls. It’s far from doubtful. It’s highly likely. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137/60 "2019-11-09T18:01:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Veritas didn’t make the claim. A reporter for ABC made the claim after investigating it as well as the claim it was shut down by ABC. As noted already, the claim is reported [with no context](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/how-trump-kept-tabs-on-jeffrey-epstein), other sources from information also looked away for lack of testimonies and right wing conspiracy tabloids or wealthy guys paid many for their silence. The point to dismiss groups like Veritas is precisely for that [lack of context](https://www.thenation.com/article/the-trump-allegations-as-jane-doe-breaks-her-silence-will-the-media/)and very likely editing of their videos obtained with a lot of leading or “hypothetical” questions. > [@Magiver](#): > > it wasn’t a few flights. It was between 11 and 26 flights and Clinton ditched the secret service on at least 5 of them. [Cite.](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/14/bill-clinton-ditched-secret-service-on-multiple-lo/?utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=chacka&utm_campaign=TWT+-+DSA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0L_di87d5QIVh5OzCh0sVQ2bEAAYASAAEgLhlfD_BwE) I can’t imaging why Bill “I like them young” Clinton would ditch the secret service on trips to pedo-island. Actually that shows a lack of reading the source. It is in the end innuendo, but close to the issue: [https://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clinton-dershowitz-on-pedophile-billio-1681039971](https://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clinton-dershowitz-on-pedophile-billio-1681039971) > [@](#): > > Bill Clinton took repeated trips on the " Lolita Express"—the private passenger jet owned by billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein—with an actress in softcore porn movies whose name appears in Epstein’s address book under an entry for “massages,” according to flight logbooks obtained by Gawker As the facts found by others showed later, in reality Clinton attempted to hide a lot of sexual improprieties, but it was not with underage kids. > [@Magiver](#): > > He’s a convicted sex offender and paid compensation to dozens of under-aged girls. It’s far from doubtful. It’s highly likely. Again, a Monday morning quarterbacking point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abc-hiding-epsteins-story/843137.md?page=4)