# ABC's Fresh Off The Boat. Is this a controversy waiting to happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 24, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773 "2015-01-24T17:39:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/21 "2015-01-25T14:13:39Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, or if you just haven’t met enough people. > > \*\*April R \*\*is bound to be right. Lots of white people will be offended on behalf of Asians, regardless of whether those Asians are themselves offended too. I’ve been a white guy all my life. And I’ve met a lot of people. But I don’t get accusations of being offensive. Whenever I hear somebody complaining about easily offended everyone else is, I always think “If everyone around you is offended, have you ever considered that maybe you’re being offensive?” ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/22 "2015-01-25T14:22:10Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I recognized the dad from his voice…he’s Kim Jong-Un in The Interview. Oh! I liked him. He’s a _big_ part of why that movie didn’t completely suck. Will any of this “big controversy” that **Shakes** predicts have anything to do with there being a Korean-American actor playing a Chinese-American character? I don’t remember if that’s something we’re supposed to get upset about? Is there an argument that this kind of casting helps white people think of Asians as “they’re all the same”? Is Randall Park a significantly better casting choice than Marlon Brando, Yul Brynner, or Mickey Rooney? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/23 "2015-01-25T14:35:44Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > I get a vibe like this would be a show about the Kahns arriving in America. > > Edit: I guess that should be “the Souphanousinphones”, not “the Kahns”. I prefer to call them “the Kahns”. THAT would be funny! ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/24 "2015-01-25T14:51:52Z")
The only thing is after The Goldbergs, Black-ish and Cristela it looks like ABC is looking to cross “Asian Sitcom” off their list. At least it looks funnier then Cristela. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why assume this? Do you assume white people get offended by _The McCarthys_ or _Moms_? I’m kind of offended by how unfunny those shows are. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/25 "2015-01-25T15:43:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve been a white guy all my life. And I’ve met a lot of people. But I don’t get accusations of being offensive. > > Whenever I hear somebody complaining about easily offended everyone else is, I always think “If everyone around you is offended, have you ever considered that maybe you’re being offensive?” You’re reading way too much into this. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/26 "2015-01-25T17:20:28Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I recognized the dad from his voice…he’s Kim Jong-Un in The Interview. > It looked okay, nothing too special, I did notice that one of the writers/EPs was the creator of Don’t Trust the B. Also, I know it comes from the book, but I think Fresh Off The Boat is a stupid name. I mean, even if they came straight from Asia they would have flown (yes, I know it’s an idiom), but they just moved from Washington DC to Orlando, so they’re not really Fresh Off The Boat. Unless they had just recently moved into the country I suppose. “Fresh off the boat” is a slang term some asian americans use to jokingly refer to first-gen asian americans. (To be clear, it’s at least mildly derogatory when used by a white person. Don’t use it if you are a white person.) Often abbreviated as “FOB.” > **[Fresh off the boat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_off_the_boat)** > > The phrase fresh off the boat (FOB), off the boat (OTB), are sometimes-derogatory terms used to describe immigrants who have arrived from a foreign nation and have yet to assimilate into the host nation's culture, language, and behavior, but still continue with their ethnic ideas and practices. Within Asian American circles in the United States, the phrase is considered politically incorrect and derogatory. It can also be used to describe the stereotypical behavior of new immigrants as, for e In... ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/27 "2015-01-25T21:27:42Z")
In my experience, FOB is at best a neutral term. As in a statement of fact that someone (and not exclusively chinese) is a recent immigrant to the US in varying stages of assimilation and adaption. It can certainly be used in a derogatory fashion with a connotation along the lines of “what a hick.” Other recent immigrants tend to ether use FOB to cut some slack (using the rules of the road in China in American isn’t a good idea but understandable because one is FOB), or to call the kettle black. I’ve never encountered Chinese folks getting offended if I refer to myself as FOB when I returned after living in Asia for 20 something years, or my family, or to people I know. I’m not sure the mild derogatory is limited to white folks referring to Asians. I think it can be mildly derogatory when used by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/28 "2015-01-25T22:38:17Z")
i’ve heard “off the boat” more than “fresh off the boat”, and it refered to anyone who recently arrived; not just one ethnic group. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/29 "2015-01-25T23:26:12Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I’m not sure the mild derogatory is limited to white folks referring to Asians. I think it can be mildly derogatory when used by anyone. That’s right, I shouldn’t have implied that it’s only derogatory when used by a white person. But I do think it’s more inherently and irredeemably insulting when used by a non-immigrant. Between immigrants, at least immigrants from the same country/area, there’s at least the “ultimately one of us” connotation to soften the blow… ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/30 "2015-01-25T23:45:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve been a white guy all my life. And I’ve met a lot of people. But I don’t get accusations of being offensive. > > Whenever I hear somebody complaining about easily offended everyone else is, I always think “If everyone around you is offended, have you ever considered that maybe you’re being offensive?” You haven’t met enough people then. There are whole groups of people who see it as their personal Don Quixote mission to be offended on behalf of other groups. They are all over the internet but you can also find them in real life on college campuses and leftist enclaves. I even have a couple of family members among their ranks. Ironically, they do tend to be overwhelmingly white, upper middle class or truly rich and extremely liberal (not that all liberals are that way) and most of them have no real personal associations with the group they are on a quest to defend that that day or that minute. It is just an an obnoxious personality trait as far as I can tell. That is where most of the Political Correctness complaints stem from. It isn’t that most people want to be open bigots or oppress anyone. It is just a a game that certain people set up that you can never win because they keep changing the terms and rules to whatever suits them at the moment. In the mean time, it is accurate to say that whatever they are pretending to to defend against isn’t actually offensive to whichever group they picked for their pet cause that day. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/31 "2015-01-26T01:25:48Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > “Fresh off the boat” is a slang term some asian americans use to jokingly refer to first-gen asian americans. (To be clear, it’s at least mildly derogatory when used by a white person. Don’t use it if you are a white person.) Often abbreviated as “FOB.” > > [Fresh off the boat - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_off_the_boat) I understand the term…it just doesn’t apply to this show. At least not as described in the wiki page for the show or the youtube link in the first post. The wiki page even specifically says that the show is about the culture clash of moving from DC to Orlando. Just, quickly, glancing at the wiki for the book, it seems to be the same thing. That his parents moved here from Taiwan, but the book is more about moving from DC to Orlando and being a racial minority, not being an immigrant as the title (of the show and the book) would imply. And even to use your quote above, the main character (the kid in the back seat, not the guy that played Kim Jong-Un) isn’t a ‘first-gen asain american’, he’s second gen. It’s unclear from anything I’m finding if his parents were born in or out of the country but the author of the book was born in the US. Personally, I’ve only heard ‘off the boat’ and it wasn’t derogatory at all. I’m Italian and it’s something I would ask other Italians (usually older ones) when I was curious if they immigrated here or if their parents or grandparents were the ones that first came here. ---
**Author:** ![donkeyoatey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@donkeyoatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donkeyoatey)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/32 "2015-01-26T02:07:13Z")
I live in Calgary, AB. There has been an ongoing battle here for years between two Asian gangs: FOB (Fresh Off the Boat) and FOBK (Fresh Off the Boat Killers). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/33 "2015-01-26T02:56:10Z")
I read the wiki pages. So, the mom speaks some kind of butchered English for comedic effect and to highlight culture clashes (dog poop in a bag during the trailer). There’s no way I could possibly watch this show because the Chinglish is just made up bullshit by writers that don’t know how to do it authentically. If Mom spoke real Chinglish and the writers worked at it, it could make the show. Just think all of the bad jive talkin’ pimps on shows in the 70’s and 80’s. Not sure if jive talkers were insulting or simply lame? Same for not getting the Chinglish right, or at least close. I’ve listened to Chinglish my entire life, both from decedents of Chinese that came for the railroads, FOB, in Taiwan as an English teacher, in China for decades, and finally 20+ years of marriage to my Chinglish speaking wife. It might be kind of a cool show if they didn’t butcher the language so obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/34 "2015-01-26T03:06:29Z")
What does your wife think of the preview? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/35 "2015-01-26T05:02:22Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You haven’t met enough people then. There are whole groups of people who see it as their personal Don Quixote mission to be offended on behalf of other groups. They are all over the internet but you can also find them in real life on college campuses and leftist enclaves. I even have a couple of family members among their ranks. Ironically, they do tend to be overwhelmingly white, upper middle class or truly rich and extremely liberal (not that all liberals are that way) and most of them have no real personal associations with the group they are on a quest to defend that that day or that minute. > > It is just an an obnoxious personality trait as far as I can tell. That is where most of the Political Correctness complaints stem from. It isn’t that most people want to be open bigots or oppress anyone. It is just a a game that certain people set up that you can never win because they keep changing the terms and rules to whatever suits them at the moment. In the mean time, it is accurate to say that whatever they are pretending to to defend against isn’t actually offensive to whichever group they picked for their pet cause that day. I used to believe this. Not that I’d ever encountered said people, but I saw no reason to believe said people didn’t exist. But now that so much of the conversations take place online, where I can see what is actually said, I find that, 99/100, it is exactly what **Nemo** described. The person says something that I have seen the minority in question say is at least marginally offensive. They also are most often extremely combative, and thus provoke the ire of the supposed SJW or Offenderatti. Remember, **Nemo** is talking about this being a general trend, not about the existence of people who are like you describe. People you describe exist, but they are vastly overreported. More often than not, the existence of said people is used as an excuse to lump everyone who expresses offense or just dislike for something in with them. I’ve been watching it on reddit, for example. I see the claim being made against someone. I go back and look at all their previous comments. And, so far, without fail, the person making the accusation has said a bunch of intentionally offensive things, and the other person has just normal comments. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/36 "2015-01-26T06:28:42Z")
Nemo did say “most people,” which is true. The problem, of course, is that due to the rules of political correctness if even one person feigns offense then it must be scrapped. And to highlight Nemo’s point, the people who typically get super-duper offended by criticism of Islam or black-on-black crime are white-guilt liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/37 "2015-01-26T06:33:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I used to believe this. Not that I’d ever encountered said people, but I saw no reason to believe said people didn’t exist. But now that so much of the conversations take place online, where I can see what is actually said, I find that, 99/100, it is exactly what **Nemo** described. The person says something that I have seen the minority in question say is at least marginally offensive. They also are most often extremely combative, and thus provoke the ire of the supposed SJW or Offenderatti. > > Remember, **Nemo** is talking about this being a general trend, not about the existence of people who are like you describe. People you describe exist, but they are vastly overreported. More often than not, the existence of said people is used as an excuse to lump everyone who expresses offense or just dislike for something in with them. > > I’ve been watching it on reddit, for example. I see the claim being made against someone. I go back and look at all their previous comments. And, so far, without fail, the person making the accusation has said a bunch of intentionally offensive things, and the other person has just normal comments. That may be true. In my personal experience, however, Shagnasty’s observation has some truth to it. I once encountered a white liberal woman, for instance, who seemed upset that I wasn’t offended about something that she considered to be racist against Asians. (I’m Asian. She was offended by something she felt to be anti-Asian, but I wasn’t offended, and she seemed upset that I wasn’t offended.) ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/38 "2015-01-26T06:50:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I used to believe this. Not that I’d ever encountered said people, but I saw no reason to believe said people didn’t exist. But now that so much of the conversations take place online, where I can see what is actually said, I find that, 99/100, it is exactly what **Nemo** described. The person says something that I have seen the minority in question say is at least marginally offensive. They also are most often extremely combative, and thus provoke the ire of the supposed SJW or Offenderatti. > > Remember, **Nemo** is talking about this being a general trend, not about the existence of people who are like you describe. People you describe exist, but they are vastly overreported. More often than not, the existence of said people is used as an excuse to lump everyone who expresses offense or just dislike for something in with them. > > I’ve been watching it on reddit, for example. I see the claim being made against someone. I go back and look at all their previous comments. And, so far, without fail, the person making the accusation has said a bunch of intentionally offensive things, and the other person has just normal comments. Well, I find it rather ironic that **LN** assumed I was talking about Asians would be the ones getting upset over this (even though I never specified anyone in particular.) So **LN** felt it incumbent upon him and stand up for those Asians that he inferred that I was calling thin skinned. I was actually thinking the same thing **Elfkin** was, that it would be some white people being offended on behalf of Asians. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/39 "2015-01-26T07:26:13Z")
If you Google “Off the boat racist” you’ll see there’s no shortage of white people being offended for Asian folks. > [@](#): > > So when I heard folks were still attacking the show for being racist online (I’m assuming mainly based on the title since the show hasn’t premiered yet) and that it was mainly white people shouting “racism”, I had to check it out myself. Sure enough a simple search on twitter brings up a number of tweets like the ones below. [Link](http://youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com/fresh-off-the-boat-thank-you-white-people-for-pointing-out-its-racism/) [QUOTE=contiued after tweets in link] Thank you concerned and enlightened white people for calling a show racist without seeing it or really knowing what it is and saving Asian folks like myself from inadvertently embracing something that our community has waited a long time to embrace. Shine on, you crazy white diamonds! [/QUOTE] LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773/40 "2015-01-26T07:32:32Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > “Fresh off the boat” is a slang term some asian americans use to jokingly refer to first-gen asian americans. (To be clear, it’s at least mildly derogatory when used by a white person. Don’t use it if you are a white person.) Often abbreviated as “FOB.” > > [Fresh off the boat - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_off_the_boat) “Off the Boat” is much older than that and my Italian father (and aunts and uncles) will be the first to tell you that they were “Off the Boat” people in the 60s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abcs-fresh-off-the-boat-is-this-a-controversy-waiting-to-happen/710773.md?page=3)