# Abdul El-Sayed vs Haley Stevens - Progressives vs Centrists, gloves-off discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2026, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371 "2026-11-03T17:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/61 "2026-11-03T19:56:41Z")
OMG Ninjas ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/62 "2026-11-03T19:56:50Z")
LOL. I thought I had covered my bases by re-reading the OP, but apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/63 "2026-11-03T19:59:58Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I thought I had covered my bases by re-reading the OP, but apparently not Heh. We’ve all been there 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/64 "2026-11-03T20:03:27Z")
To me, this illustrates the need for Progressives to get their ducks in a row on the Israel/Palestine situation. It seems like they tend to sit in their echo chamber marinating in all sorts of “anti-Zionist” rhetoric that either (a) many voters will find uncomfortably close to anti-Semitism, or (b) pro-Israel PACs will have little trouble ginning it up into a punched-up anti-Semitism narrative, which they’re quite well-practiced in. While I’m not weighing in on who is right and wrong there, it’s political malpractice not to understand that Israel/Palestine is a wedge, and whichever side you lean toward, even the mildest lean is going to get painted as the most apocalyptically extreme position anyone could imagine. If you have a Muslim surname then you need to be prepping appropriately for this right out of the gate. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/65 "2026-11-03T20:09:35Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > The flip side of that is that there will be some democrats who show their true colors and do the opposite. So be it. It’s still a bit shocking. Whatever their grievances with one another, I thought we could all universally agree that stopping Trump was the number one priority. It makes me wonder who else would or will defect. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/66 "2026-11-03T20:16:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > then said that “hurt people hurt people” and asked us to imagine a world where Israel didn’t bomb his Hezbollah relatives and so he didn’t kill a bunch of Jews. Are you implying that El-Sayed has relatives in Hezbollah? Are you also implying he wants to kill Jews? So once in the pit, you just go full-on racist troll? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/67 "2026-11-03T20:17:44Z")
What comes across as anti-Semitic, or at least as some stripe of bigotry, is the conflation of “American Jew” and “Israeli” that seems popular with some politicians. It’s a revival of the old meme that Jews invariably have divided loyalty, are incapable of being loyal to the country of their birth and citizenship, and is also strongly akin to the bigotry that lead to Japanese-Americans being locked up in concentration camps during WWII. > [@RitterSport](#): > > I just searched and I can’t find any indication he’s antisemitic. He seems pretty anti-Israel, at least with the current government there. My Israeli friends are also opposed to the current government and what its doing. Maybe they’re antisemitic, too. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/68 "2026-11-03T20:20:14Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Since a big part of the rift between them was about Israel, I do worry what alienating Jewish voters is going to do to the democratic party. Jewish voters may only be about 3% of voters, but Jewish voters donate a lot of money to democrats. Around 25-50% of democratic funding comes from Jewish Americans. One more time… > [@Broomstick](#): > > What comes across as anti-Semitic, or at least as some stripe of bigotry, is the conflation of “American Jew” and “Israeli” that seems popular with some politicians. It’s a revival of the old meme that Jews invariably have divided loyalty, are incapable of being loyal to the country of their birth and citizenship, and is also strongly akin to the bigotry that lead to Japanese-Americans being locked up in concentration camps during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/69 "2026-11-03T20:21:49Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Are you implying that El-Sayed has relatives in Hezbollah? Are you also implying he wants to kill Jews? Nice troll, but I don’t think even you are this stupid. That “his” and the second “he” are referring to the mass shooter, Ayman Mohamad Ghazali, whose brother Ibrahim was a Hezbollah commander until an Israeli airstrike forced his early retirement. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/70 "2026-11-03T20:28:29Z")
Hopefully, you’re not claiming I’m doing that. Maybe you were using my quote as an example of other people doing that? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/71 "2026-11-03T20:44:56Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Are you implying that El-Sayed has relatives in Hezbollah? Are you also implying he wants to kill Jews? No, the implication is that the response from El-Sayed to a terrorist attack on Jews in his state was to devote a considerable amount of his sympathy speech drumming up sympathy for the attacker, by pointing out the attacker had relatives killed by Israel’s government. He apparently wanted to platform the idea that anti-Semitic hate doesn’t come out of nowhere, but he did it at the worst possible time. I don’t know why he did this. I don’t know why he felt that was relevant at that time. Hence “read the room.” I was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, as post 9/11 I was trying to put the pieces together and one of the pieces to terrorism is foreign policy. At the sociopolitical level it is evident how US foreign policy shaped anti-American sentiment in the Middle East. I feel like I can observe that pretty neutrally, without undercutting or excusing the horrors of 9/11. But had I made that observation as a political official immediately following the 9/11 attacks, that would have pissed some people off, no? So why would El-Sayed say that and why would he say it then? I think he said it because he’s genuinely pissed off at Israel and sympathetic toward Palestinians, and he couldn’t, for whatever reason, refrain from venting his spleen even though the moment clearly called for condemnation. This, coupled with his unapologetic association with noted anti-Semite Hasan Piker, has got some people concerned. I am one such person. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/72 "2026-11-03T20:54:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Nice troll, but I don’t think even you are this stupid. Maybe be careful with your pronouns. It wasn’t entirely clear to me where all the “hes” were directed. I’d love to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you’re a bit of an ass, so 🤷. Thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/73 "2026-11-03T20:56:04Z")
He’s since apologized for making that statement at that time and not being more considerate. He did, indeed, read the the room and gave a mea culpa. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/74 "2026-11-03T21:00:14Z")
Yes, and he also committed to doing more Jewish outreach (because that, for me, is the accountability piece) and that has yielded what? I know Jews who are still very reluctant to cast that vote, so who sets the standard for what’s good enough? Well, disavowing Piker would be a start. It’s so tone deaf to act like that doesn’t matter to people. It matters to me and I’m not even Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/75 "2026-11-03T21:03:03Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I think he said it because he’s genuinely pissed off at Israel and sympathetic toward Palestinians, [So he feels the same way as the majority of Americans, and the large majority of Democrats, do?](https://news.gallup.com/poll/702440/israelis-no-longer-ahead-americans-middle-east-sympathies.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/76 "2026-11-03T21:07:21Z")
I don’t think you’re really understanding what I’m saying. I staunchly oppose Israel’s actions in Palestine, so I’d be a part of that majority. But someone attacked a synagogue, okay? The victims of that attack should have been the priority of the hour. Apologizing is a great _first_ step. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/77 "2026-11-03T21:25:23Z")
Has he not done Jewish outreach? He’s talked with Jewish leaders, campaigned along side Jewish leaders, celebrated Rosh Hashanah at a local home, addressed the Michigan Democratic Jewish Caucus. He’s denounced anti-Semitism publicly multiple times. He hired a Jewish liaison for his campaign. I mean, he’s done as much as most other Democratic candidates it seems. At some point, all of these demands ("say these words… denounce this…condemn that…stop taking about this… apologize for this…now apologize better…) seem to move into the realm forcing him to jump through hoops simply because he’s Arabic and/or Muslim. You keep saying he hasn’t read the room, but I’d say he has. It’s just not to your liking perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/78 "2026-11-03T21:25:27Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I don’t think you’re really understanding what I’m saying. I staunchly oppose Israel’s actions in Palestine, so I’d be a part of that majority. But someone attacked a synagogue, okay? The victims of that attack should have been the priority of the hour. > > Apologizing is a great _first_ step. I do understand what you’re saying, and i thank you for clearly expressing why some Jews are anxious about El-Sayed. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/79 "2026-11-03T21:27:50Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Has he not done Jewish outreach? He’s talked with Jewish leaders, campaigned along side Jewish leaders, celebrated Rosh Hashanah at a local home, addressed the Michigan Democratic Jewish Caucus. He’s denounced anti-Semitism publicly multiple times. He hired a Jewish liaison for his campaign. I mean, he’s done as much as most other Democratic candidates it seems. At some point, all of these demands ("say these words… denounce this…condemn that…stop taking about this… apologize for this…now apologize better…) seem to move into the realm forcing him to jump through hoops simply because he’s Arabic and/or Muslim. It’ll never be enough for people who equate any support for Palestine as tantamount to praising Hezbollah and any criticism of Israel as antisemitic. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/80 "2026-11-03T21:35:55Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > It’ll never be enough for people who equate any support for Palestine as tantamount to praising Hezbollah and any criticism of Israel as antisemitic Genuine question: do you really think that’s an accurate description of @Spice_Weasel? Or of @DSeid for that matter? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371.md?page=5)